Theos-Talk Archives (May 1996 Message tl01107)

Martin>>Jinarajadasa and Leadbeater on the other hand state that the black race
        >>is an old race and in the latter days of their evolution.

Alexis>But Jinarajadasa and Leadbeater were racists plain and simple, and
probably anti-semites to boot.

Eldon (to Alexis)>If you substitute terms like "the Roman Empire was aging
	and in decay,"
        would that be equally racist, and would it imply that someone born into
        that Empire in its last years is inferior to someone born into a
        different, more advanced and powerful society? Certainly not, I'd hope.

True. My point was to show a very marked contradiction in teachings between
different TS factions, not to accuse anybody of racist ideas. I would have
to study Leadbeater and Jinarajadasa more in depth for that.


Martin >>GdeP remarks that anyone who observes black people can see that the
>>black race is a very vital one and thus *must* be younger than the
>>more sober minded white race. It seems to make sense, but again, I'm not
>>too comfortable with race-theories and do not think these to be very
>>fruitful to our understanding of the spiritual, at least not in this
>>current era. Of course there will be many individuals in the black race
>>who are more advanced spiritually than most in the white race are and
>>vice versa. That's in the scheme of things.

Alexis >This kind of totally untrue sweeping generalization can only be the
result
>of almost no experience with individual human beings. To even contemplate
>the idea that Africans are less sober-minded or philosophically oriented
>than Caucasians (or visa versa) is simply racism, or ignorance, or both!

Eldon: You seem to be dismissing sociology, psychology of groups, much of
 history,and science and statistics where it deals with the behavior and
 characteristics of groups. And at the same time, you are writing off group
karma, the evolutionary drama with periods of evolution, much of the nature
 of cycles, etc.

Martin: On this point I find myself agreeing more with Eldon.

    Some important considerations  in regard to the theory of root-races
    are, in my opinion:

   The theosophical teachings about root-races are fairly complicated.
   Not only is there cyclical evolution (and cycles within cycles, etc.
   involving the evolution of sub-elements of nature), but also, it actually
   is a teaching about *consciousness* evolving new aspects of the inner planes
   of being. The problem with the root-races theory mainly arises when
   root-races are *identified* with (current) races and one race is seen
   to be more advanced spiritually than another. That is asking for trouble!
   This identification *has* taken place within theosophical organizations,
   even with an eminent teacher as GdP, I think, although he broadens the scope
   of the idea considerably. As an example for this broadening I can refer
   to his mentioning of the fact of fifth-rounders (*type of consciousness*)
   having fourth-round bodies. Ditto for sixth-rounders as the Buddha Gautama.
   This should remind us all that this subject of root-races is extremely
   complicated and tricky. I personally doubt whether the Masters would
   have given out teachings about the root-races at all had they forseen
   the troubles that would stem from it.

   These considerations lead me to a logical conclusion:

   Take extreme care with promulgating teachings about root-races.
   In general, try to assess carefully whether the audience, students
   and the public in general understands the subject you are talking about.
   In other words: use words and language that is clear, unambiguous
   and to the point. In this era of mass-communication nothing will remain
   hidden from an inquisitive journalist or other searchers for information
   about theosophy. Add to this that the majority of people still judges
   others on surface appearance, not on the deeper qualities within.
   This implies taking extensive precautions when preparing lectures,
   articles, etc. Hence my conclusion that the teachings on root-races
   are probably premature in this era. No theosophy bashing involved!
   I cannot speak for others of course.

   Summarizing, I would like to emphasize the need of being aware
   of the psychological ideosyncracies of people today, and phrase
   teachings in very plain and clear words, adapted to and fit for this era.


Eldon(to Alexis):  But this does not invalidate group
        parameters nor the study of sociology, psychology, economics,
        or occult teachings dealing with cycles and the evolution of
        cultures.

Of course not. But see my considerations before.

Alexis>I would rate Nelson Mandela as much more spiritually advanced
       than most people on this planet.

I had him in mind when I wrote about some individuals of the black race
being more advanced than many of the white race.

Alexis>He is, I am personally sure, an Adept of high degree.  I
      >would definitely rate him as higher than G de P because
      Nelson Mandela has actually made the world a better place
      for millions of human beings.


Eldon> Here I'd again disagree. Perhaps your definition of "adept" is
       farther from the theosophical one than I'd thought.


Well, Alexis, I'm pretty sure that Mandela has strong protection and guidance by
our Order of Wisdom and Compassion. GdP is part of this, our, Order, so he
could be a strong benefactor on the invisible planes for all you could know.


Eldon>Again, I see a considerable misunderstanding of the idea of Root Races.
  Apparently a change in terminology and modern politics has obscured more
  of the meaning that I had thought.

For sure. It has become a totally perverted concept, a pernicious doctrine
in the eyes of many!

Eldon> Perhaps it is in need of a major rewrite

Yes, but with extreme care.


Eldon>, since there is so much misunderstanding, even from long-time
students.


This is mainly due to the identification of Root races with current races.
Even GdP has not taken enough precautions to prevent possible misunderstandings.
(though I wonder if he could)
He talks about Aboriginals and Bushmen, etc. as being remnants of a previous
Race and that this race is in their latter days of evolution. Of course,
these 'remnants' will incarnate in the Aryan race, but what is the general
public to understand of this? All they understand, by way of fragmented and
out-of-context quoted material is that these remnants are backwards in
evolution
and will die out. Some people are willing to
grind their axis and do the job..Look at how the American indians have been
treated and what's happening in Brasil with them.

Writing this, I wonder if it is possible at all to carry the true meaning
of this Root-races theory to a broader audience at all..

Eldon> There are many remnants of past societies surrounding us. We even see
discussion of this in New Age terms, where some people are called
"clinging to the Piscean era" and others as "pioneers of the Aquarian
age," as though that actually meant something! (It does, of course, but
it's fairly minor in terms of cycles.) Calling someone "Piscean" would,
I'd assume, be equally offensive as calling them "fourth root race".
Both would be wrong, of course.

Martin: Exactly, putting labels on others is *very* dangerous.
People have many qualities and characteristics, not just one.

Martin>>Yes, and there are always people who like to get rid of those old
  	remnants-laggards- that's the inherent danger with this kind of ideas

Alexis >And that's the reason, the holocaust!

Eldon( to Alexis)> Actually, not ... Where we see the attempt to rid the
world of
 	remnants is where people resort to manipulation and thought control
	to change the behavior of others according to their ideal of a
	better society. This happens a lot in politics. The problem is in
	an arrogance, a belief that one's favorite culture, society, way of
	doing things, is better than others in the world, and where one wants
	to force his views on others, without regard to their needs or desires.

Eldon (to Alan)>I can't believe that the idea is so hard to understand,
	that people will continue, time after time, to stick to what could
	only be called "popular misconceptions" about it. It's almost as though
	 it were being used as a tool for Theosophy bashing. Let's hope not ...


But, Eldon, if theosophy talks about remnants and laggards it puts labels
on a certain group of people. And, people being labeled will suffer from
this inevitably. Why? Because there is a want in many people to feel
superior (because they feel insecure and have some inferiority-complex,
feel threatened in their way of living, etc, etc.). So, this last kind
of people (more in number than you might think) will seize any opportunity
to put other people down. It gives them a mighty feeling of self-importance.

Well, I hope this small lesson in psychology illustrates my point of view
enough. It is not intended to belittle you or anyone else for that matter,
but it *is* a matter of serious concern.

We deal with real people, not with some ideal type which has no flaws.
Indeed, we ourselves have flaws..


Eldon (to Alan) >An understanding of other cultures, rather than a dismissing
   of all differences as "racism", is highly important to appreciate and
   live in harmony with others. The prejudice that you mention is more likely
   to have arisen because people were not more understanding of other ways
   of living life.

Of course. The point is how one can contribute to this mutual understanding.

 Eldon (to Alan) >I sometimes wonder, at times, seeing how things are going,
if it's not
the T.S. that's so much in trouble, as the public understanding of the
philosophy. I wonder if it'll be totally lost in misunderstandings and
misrepresentation. It's to be expected, I guess, over time, as any
special teachings are lost in exoteric forms or misrepresented in
some monstrous form. <frown> That usually takes several centuries to
happen, but I wonder, at times, it Theosophy will make it into the
next century ... <sigh>


That depends also on us, how we deal with the popularization of theosophy.

Martin
Also a member of TI..