Theos-Talk Archives (April 1996 Message tl00285)

At 09:42 AM 4/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Alexis,
>
>If I were you, I wouldn't say so loud that gays & Jews make up the bulk of
>composers. It's statements like that which start antisemitic & anti gay
>movements. You're asking for it. Why? Not that I know the solution to the
>problem. I've been watching presentations on C-span, & watching with
>astonishment how many Jews there are in responsible positions. But I can
>tell you that. I'm not going to say it publicly, because that's what
>anti-semites said long before the Nazis. So, actually, what I note on C-span
>makes me feel a bit uneasy.

Liesel:

You know it's true and I know it's true. People who don't like Jews and
don't like Gays aren't going to like them no matter what either the Jews or
the Gays do or say, so screw em! If you were to take the Jews out of the
worlds of Art, Entertainment, and letters, or out of medicine, or
literature, or raw science, what would you have left? For heaven's sake
Liesel...subtract the Jews from a list of Nobel Laureates and you'd have
almost nothing left. Look at Broadway, take the Jews out of the list of
famous composers and writers of musicals and/or operettas and Who'd be left?
Cole Porter and Victor Herbert! I don't think it's becuase the Jewish people
are intrinsically superior, I think it's because they are willing to work
hard, and becuase they have an innate love of music and culture and
knowledge for its own sake that places them in humanity's vanguard. It's
probably silly to say "Don't mention it" because everyone knows this. I
think the answer is to remind folks how very much humanity owes the Jewish
people, how in debt we all are to them for their vast contributions. I
really don't think Christianity was a great contribution, but the other
really amakes up for it. What is true about Jews is also true about Gays.
Hiding in the woodwork won't help, it never did in the past! In fact most
Gays have learned that since we came bbblazing out of our closets, and began
shoving people's noses in their own prejudice, things have improved greatly
for us.
>
>Also, if you don't mind my saying so, I don't think it's very
>brother/sisterly of you to remind Alan that he's poor & that you belong to a
>"superior" set of people. Alan excels in other things like Kabalah &
>Christian history.

I beg your pardon? Liesel, when did I do any such thing? I am tremendously
fond of Alan and I also admire him for his knowledge and efforts. I would
never say or do anything that would hurt him. I certainly have "flamed"
Richard Ihle, and in a lesser way Jerry schuler for certain comments they
have made. But I cannot recall anything I said to Alan that could be
constured as you just construed it. Please give day and date and quote!

alexis
>
>Liesel
>..............................................................................
>
>>At 09:59 PM 4/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>>Alexis,
>>>
>>>Stealing another man's wife, and fooling around is, unfortunately, not
>>>something very out of the ordinary. I really thought you'd come up with some
>>>thing more juicy.
>>>
>>>Liesel
>>>Member TI, TSA,TS in Canada, HR
>>
>>
>>Well Leisel: When I lived in Germany, my music teacher (who as you may
>>remember was Mendelsohns great granddaughter, siad there had always been
>>rumours that Richard Wagner mau have indulged some of Ludwig of Bavarians
>>appetites to gain his financial support, especially for the Beiruth project
>>which was very expensive indeed. It's also odd that Hans von Bulow remained
>>Wagner's friend and chief musical supporter for the rest of their lives.
>>Maybe he was glad to get rid of Cosima...Wagner married her becuase she was
>>Listz's daughter and Wagner was absolutely certain (he shared Nietsche's
>>racial theories) that he and Cosima would produce a bunch of musical
>>geniuses. But as you know, he only produced a bunch of Nazis.
>>
>>Actually people like Wagner seldom are original sexually> In my list of Gay
>>composers I forgot Franz Schubert, Frederick Chopin, Maurice Ravel,  Eric
>>Satie, Gian Carlo Menotti, Lucas Foss, Francis Poulanc, and Olivier Messian
>>if you took the Gays and the Jews out of the world of art and music there's
>>be hardly anyone else.
>>
>>alexis
>>
>>
>>
>
>