Theos-Talk Archives (April 1996 Message tl00160)

Richtay:
>Um -- I don't get it.  The words "morally upright" mean no more to me than
>simply "try to be good, altruistic people."  There is no air of superiority,
>no necessary comparison with anyone, only an impersonal standard of kindness,
>generosity, lessening of ego, etc.
	It is, after all, a matter of interpretation.  My interpretation of the
way in which the term was being used is as I have said.  The exact phrase
used was:  "bend over backwards to be morally upright."  This is not simply
trying to be a good person.  Bending over backward implies trying too much.
One who is, in fact, a good person, needn't have to bend over backward.
A person who has "only an impersonal standard of kindness, generosity,
lessening of ego, etc." will not need to bend over backward--goodness
should come naturally and spontaneously.

>And I agree with Greg that ethics and morality is EXACTLY what Theosophy is
>founded on.  Even the most cursory look at *The Voice of the Silence* can
>assure us of that.
	You seem to have entirely missed my point.  I said that ethics
and morality is what Theosophy (large T) is founded on.  I have no quarrel
with your statement here.  But, I said before and will say again, Theosophy
is *not* an occult school.  I was speaking of occult schools, and especially
about Western occult schools, of which most theosophists know next to
nothing (which is ok).

>Furthermore, the training of the chela was not different in kind from the
>ordinary training the T.S. members were invited to pursue -- it was merely
>different in degree.  Look at HPB's articles on Chelaship, Occultism Versus
>the Occult Arts, etc. and see how very strict the rules were about morality,
>sexuality, truthfulness, diet, conduct., etc. etc.  The chelas were expected
>to be the most moral of all, in spite of having stirred up tremendous karmic
>forces within themselves that speedily brought down heaps of their own "junk"
>from past lives.
	HPB gave us one of the classic Hindu occult training schemes
in which morality and ethics play a large part, yes.  That is fine, and should
carry over to Theosophy, which was certainly HPB's intent.  But not all
occult schools, even in the East, are this way (I don't believe that any in
the West are).  Believe it or not, some actually use sex as part of their
training (horrors!).  Tantra, for example, uses the 5 Ms (all of the things
that traditional Brahmans find repulsive) for the very purpose of breaking
down this kind of rigid moralistic thinking.  And to dismiss Tantricism as
"left-handed" simply begs the issue.  Even H.H. The Dali Lama has great
respect for Buddhist Tantricism which uses sex--the karmamudra or action
seal-- in its training programs.  Don't forget that I originally said
"Personally
I find that idea of a group of students who bend over backwards to be morally
upright as entirely opposed to the spirit of occultism."  I did not say that
it was against the spirit of Theosophy.  It is, I think, against the spirit of
most occult schools, the few exceptions being those that HPB alluded to.

>Chelas have the toughest row to hoe of all, in that they
>are held to HIGHER standards while feeling and suffering more intensely than
>anyone else -- usually in complete absence of CONSCIOUS contact from the guru
>until probation is passed.
	There are Chelas, and there are Chelas.  You are talking about
HPB's description.  If you think that it gets easier after attaining Adepthood,
then you just may be in for a real surprise.

	Jerry S.
	Member, TI