Theos-Talk Archives (April 1996 Message tl00135)

Dear John,

No, not confused. I see now that you're talking freedom from an entirely
different angle. You're talking about the one that one acquires over
lifetimes, by comprehending & loosening the karma fetters which bind, the
ones acquired from  one's family, one's body & make up,,& one's society. One
comes closer to that kind of freeedom when one learns to operate on the
astral plane with out a physical body, & one becomes freer still, when one
attains devachan, & I guess the final freedom is nirvana. Is that what you
were talking about? I guess political freedom is included in that package,
but your concept is much wider.

Liesel
Member TI, TSA, TS in Canada, HR
..............................................................................



>Liesel wrote:
>
>>Dear John Vorstermans,
>
>John is fine....
>
>>I don't know how much of an illusion you think it is, if I live in a country
>>where, if I open my mouth to voice an opinion which doesn't conform with the
>>Party Line, they'll right away give me a ride to the nearest concentration
>>camp, or to a Gulag, have your pick.
>
>We are obviously on two totally different wave lengths here.  I made my point
>regarding "Freedom" as a composite spiritual being.  These physical aspects of
>ourselves are merely a tool for experience and understanding, which will
>hopefully eventually lead to wisdom and enlightenment or samadi.
>
>Certainly the experience of a soul born as a Jew in Nazi Germany is going to
>be differenent from a soul born in todays very materialistic USA.  Yes there
>is "apparent" freedom in the USA.  However I believe this experience of what
>you call freedom is not really true freedom at all.
>
>Certainly from a physical aspect there seems to be more freedom for the USA
>citizen as far as speech or movement is concerned but this has more to do with
>the souls dharma and karma than it has to do with freedom.  If you look deep
>enough at the individuals or probably even better, yourself, you will find
>that you actually have very little freedom.  You will find many constraints
>around you, most probably generated by your own beliefs and values and your
>own past experiences.  There will be others dictated by the society you
live in.
>
>True freedom is not something that is easy to express in words.  That is why
>I suggested contemplating on the concept for a while and see what comes up.
>I am not saying I am right but this is my opinion as I currently understand it.
>I also live in what you might call a relativly free country, New Zealand but I
>honestly do not believe I am any more free than the Jew in Germany to go
through
>the experiences that I as a spirituall being have decided it is necessary to
>go through.  Sure I can run from experiences that look cruel or harsh but
>eventually they tend to come back for me to face.
>
>It is too easy to generalise and think we know what is right and wrong
>when often we can only see the physical or emotional impact of an
>experience.  The experience is often much more than we will ever
>understand.  The challenge is to try and understand it from all it's
>aspects.
>
>Confused?
>
>
>John
>
>--
>John Vorstermans
>PO Box 11-410
>Wellington
>Mobile (025) 432-987
>
>
>
>