Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00740)

Art:
> The very Ancient path can still be
> walked to good effect I think but the trading post must be in the now.

Lewis:
 Yes, I agree the Ancient path can still be walked. It is
surprising how much remains the same in spite of all that has
changed.

 I like the analogy of humanity as a teenager, who thinks he knows
everything and sees things in simplistic terms. As the average life
span gets older and we (humanity) have a chance to mature we may
discover more value in the ancient traditions of all cultures.

> >Art:
> >> Daniel tends to use Tradition and Scripture to authenticate what is
> >> true. Daniel has come for whatever reasons to mistrust human
> >> experience as a means of coming to truth.
> >
> >Lewis: This point puzzles me. This sounds confused. Tradition and
> >scripture *is* human experience. I doubt anyone could ignore their
> >own experiences for long if they contradict the traditions and
> >scriptures they are using for guidance. We may suspend our judgement
> >temporarily, but can't do so for very long. Life forces us to
> >reconcile our ideas with our experiences, and if we don't we usually
> >experience a mental or emotional breakdown.
>
> Art: I wish you were right here Lewis, I have experienced the power of
> dogmatic ideology and it can take years (20 in my case) before you take
> your experience seriously. Part of the dogma is that you can't trust the
> human perception because it is intrinsically corrupted and depraved, set
> toward evil. So when your experience begins to question anything in the
> tradition the thought that you are being tempted immediately comes up and
> the cycle begins again.

Lewis: It is freightening how insidious the power of these ideas are
enslave and control those fall under their influence. Yet, I hope
their power fades over a series of lifetimes, as the soul accumulates
the necessary strength break the bonds. In *At the Feet of the
Master* there is a passage about the superstition and the need to rid
ourselves of its many forms.

> I agree of with you about the nearness of mental
> breakdown when you have dishonored your own perception for so long. I had a
> terrible transition from evangelicalism to faith -the structure had
> collapsed and it has taken a few years to build a small cabin for faith
> (Walden Pond) to live in. I was used to living in a basilica:) (Christian
> Tradition) now I am in this cabin of faith looking out the window meeting
> strangers who pass by and enjoying the company of fellow seekers. Endless
> Seekers.

Lewis: Your experience fills me with gratitude for my good fortune,
having found this tradition so quickly--almost without effort! So
glad to have come upon your cabin.:})

> >Art:
> >
> >> Others on the list seem to appeal
> >> to Theosophical tradition in a manner not unlike Daniel, however not with
> >> the tone of a Daniel. Answers seem to be decided by what HPB says or Judge,
> >> or the M.L.
> >
> >Lewis: Yes, I see your point, but it is because these traditions
> >and scriptures have been and are being validated by our own
> >experiences.
>
> Art: This may be true but I don't hear too much about that on line.
> Abstraction and theory seem to prevail. I am not at all adverse to that it
> is just that I would like to see how theosophical philosophy is
> authenticated in experience. For instance, has anyone directly and
> unequivically meet any of the Masters or are they a guiding "construct" a
> helpful idea?
>
Lewis: I can't claim to have met any Masters, but I have met many
fine people whose lives have been greatly affected by their long
association with the ideals and principles in theosophy. I think to
meet the Masters we have to come out of our world and go into theirs,
which can be quite a journey. One which may stretch over many
lifetimes.
 For me I have so much work to do on myself that I already know
about! In the Pythagorean school a student had to prove worthy of the
teachers time and energy by attending the classes for two years
without being allowed to so much as speak, according to one account I
have read. Even at our current level of understanding we require
students to take some courses before others...for their benefit, as
well as the teachers.

> >
> >Lewis: In one of my favorite mantras--The Golden Stairs--there is
> >a verse which says, "...a willingness to give and receive advice and
> >instruction, a willing obedience to the behests of truth once we have
> >placed our confidence in and believe that teacher to be in possesion
> >of it..." I think this goes back to my comments earlier of the value
> >of a coach/teacher. We all have blind spots in our reasoning and a
> >good teacher's sage advise and instruction can be an important aide.
> >Progress can be made without this aide, but it is a much more
> >difficult path.
> >
> > However, the sage advice of one who has been there, so to speak,
> >can be a real advantage--enter the teacher, the Master.
>
> Art: Mentor is a word that I think makes some sense in my life. A mentor is
> a guide. I have had very few contemporary mentors perhaps a few professors
> and others but ultimately I have never found a Master in those I have
> bumped into. Aspects of mentoring, I have been graciously given through
> others in combination with others. My main experience of mentoring has been
> with people who have left a legacy people like: Jesus Christ, CG. Jung
> (who I considered mentored me from beyond the grave for about 10 years);
> currently I have discovered a new mentor Ralph Waldo Emerson. I feel as if
> there is a relationship between myself and these people that is not rooted
> in history but in spirit and that I am called in some way to their
> guidance. I think of them as inner wisdom figures even though they have had
> an external existence which, of course, I am very interested in as well.
>
Lewis: Yes, I have much the same feeling regarding being mentored
from beyond the grave. When I first came into the theosophical
literature I read hundreds of books within the first year or two. I
used to dream at night I was in class with HPB and other authors I
was reading teaching the class.

 Thank you for your kind words. Perhaps we will meet on the trail.

 llucas@mercury.gc.peachnet.edu