Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00483)

Art:< Daniel tends to use Tradition
and Scripture to authenticate what is true>
 I agree with Eldon, that we all tend to do this.
The Masters themselves said that no new ideas were
accepted into their Teachings unless they could be
substantiated by others. To me, this implies that
they value substantiated experience as much as
traditional knowledge or "scripture."

Art:<Daniel has come for whatever reasons to mistrust
human experience as a means of coming to truth>
 This can be said for many theosophists as well.

Art:< Others on the list seem to appeal to
Theosophical tradition in a manner not unlike Daniel,
however not with the tone of a Daniel>

Agreed. Sometimes this is necessary and
proper, but I do think that it is sometimes overdone.

Art:<Daniel is rather aggressively advocating that we
stand in one particular place which he considers sure
footed. This is why he quotes Scripture. I don't know
if it is entirely helpful to tell him to come up with
his own ideas since he has made a concerted effort to
find his authority outside of himself. I don't agree
with him that authority rest exclusively on the
outside.>

Many theosophists do the same, and for much
the same reason. Just a different scripture. I
usually enjoy hearing personal experiences, or
personal interpretations of the "core teachings"
born from experience. Art, I entirely agree with
you that authority cannot rest only on the outside -
it is like a house made on sand. Knowledge will
only become living truth after it is internalized.

Art:< There are limits to tolerance, not where Daniel
sets them, but there are some limits to what can be
tolerated by any group no matter how enlighted.>

There is a point of diminishing returns, yes.

Art:< Or perhaps some one would like to argue from
personal experience.>

I don't know about arguing, but in the late
70s I had a mystical experience that I have not been
able to forget or repeat in its intensity. This
was just before joining the TS. I think that my
25+ years in Theosophy has largely been an effort to
come to terms with this one experience. This one
short experience was a personal revelation to me,
a gift which has allowed me to tread the Path in
my own way, at my own speed, and in my own direction.
I was a good Christian until my early 20s, when my
brother died in a gun accident. I came face to face
with death (the Lord of Death is not a pretty
sight) and Christianity simply failed me. In
fairness, let me admit that the rest of my family
were comforted within it. I went through an
agonizing Dark Night of the Soul which lasted for
many years. During this time I was very bitter
toward Christianity for letting me down. More than
anyone else, my wife and James Long (past Leader at
Pasadena) helped me out of it - largely by my
finally realizing the answers were within myself and
not without. I was an avid reader, to the point of
obsession, looking for truth outside while it quietly
rested within me all the time. After this realization,
my obsessive reading dissipated and my misdirected
anger at Christianity also dissipated.

Art:< Why is it important that the Masters exit?
Because Blavatsky tells me so? Or do I believe in the
Masters because it is a revered tradition with Tibet
or other esoteric places? Are we capable of direct
personal contact with the Masters>

It is important because they (now) are us
(in the future). I would not expect to see a
Master in the flesh in the USA today or any time
soon. However, we can contact them through
buddhi-manas (the noetic or higher mind) whenever
we open this component of ours up to them. But,
and here is the rub - anyone who opens up their
higher facilities and simply "listens" will receive
some very valuable ideas. Yoga works,
even for atheists. Theosophists say that
this comes from Masters. Christians may think it
comes from the Saints, or from Jesus himself.
Other groups may see other sources. So, while we
all can get results, we are at odds over the source
of inspiration and revelation that can come to us
in quite and receptive moments. So, being inspired
and obtaining revelations does not, in itself,
prove the existence of Masters. I sometimes
wonder if it really matters what the source is.
When revelation comes to me, it usually hits more
like a brick than a feather - and I know it
and assimilate it, with gratitude to Whomever. I
usually refer to them as "the powers that be" and
leave them generalized and nameless.

Art:< Lastly, is there a logical necessity to believe
in the Masters?>

I agree with Eldon here. It is logical for
anyone who believes in reincarnation. Incidently,
Ed Abdill said exactly this during his talk at the
12th Annual Meeting last weekend.

Jerry S.