Theos-Talk Archives (August 1995 Message tl00452)

Daniel:

>Lets look at:
>Argument of Cause
>This premise declares that nothing that exists can exist without
>something other than itself. Water needs H2 & 0. Mass needs
>space...etc.

I'd agree with this.

>A simple example reveals:
>Man needs cows to survive, cows need man to survive. Yet
>man cannot create a cow and a cow cannot create a man.
>Dependency cannot be seperated from independency.

This implies that when a world comes into being, a multitude of
beings much emerge simultaneously from the unmanifest. A single
being cannot emerge by itself. Once we have a world in existence,
individual beings can come and go at will; the remaining beings
in life will sustain things.

>Argument of Change
>The premise reveals that everything that exists must at some point
>in time not exist in its current condition. The Law of Entropy drives
>this argument. You nor I existed 100 yrs ago nor will we exist 100
>yrs from now. Our current condition will change. This change will
>always be degraded.

This is an essential teaching of Buddhism, which is also basically
sound. Everything is subject to continual change. There can exist
nothing that is immune from being subject to change.

>Argument of Causality
>Only that which is not bound by CAUSE/CHANGE can be the prime
>mover (whether personal or impersonal). The primemover does not
>require anything other than itself to exist, and cannot change. And
>in this only the Prime Mover can be considered an Actual infinite.
>There are no known actual infinites that exist within the bounds
>of CAUSE/CHANGE and the Laws of Thermodynamics.

There is no prime mover. Each of us is our own "prime mover", individually
responsible for our existence. It is our inner choice to come into
existence, made in a deep part of ourselves, that motivates our coming
out into manifestation in this world.

There is no supreme being or individual in existence that is responsible
for the rest. To say that an "infinite" actually exists is self-inconsistent.
Every living thing is a divinity, rooted in the Unknown, beyond existence,
and we all come into being, cooperatively creating the world. No single
being is the absolute top, nor cause of all thr rest.

>The BIg Bang THEORY is represented as an Actual Infinite and therefor
>should be disconsidered...Even Steven Hawking declared that the
>beginning was bound by these laws. And that there is no evidence
>whatsoever to declare otherwise.

The universe that we know from the big bang is but a grain of sand, a
speck of dust, an mere atom in yet a bigger universe. And that bigger
universe is part of a still bigger scheme of things. There is no top,
and we cannot find a "highest", no matter how high we try to go. There
are infinite levels or scales of being going upward, and *no top*.

>And the most interesting for me is that I knew a portion of the above
>before I ever read the Word.

Every religion and its sects have their holy books. Each tells in myth
and story grand spiritual truths. There are great truths hidden behind
the stories. The stories are not literally true. They hide deeper
truths for those with the proper "keys" to unlock them.

>And yet now I read God's Word reveals:
>He is Alone.
>(I alone created the Heaven's and the Earth)
>There is no oher like Him.
>(There never has been or ever will be anyone
>like me, There are no other God's)
>He never changes.
>(I am the Lord...I do not Change)
>And that He created something out of nothing.
>(In the Beginning God said "Let there be Light"...)

This sounds like the creative intelligence that makes *a particular world
or universe*. The "God the Creator" from the Old Testament is Elohim,
plural, and refers to a host of high Archangels (called Dhyani-Chohans in
Theosophy), not to a singular being, supreme over everything, everywhere.

>He is not bound by those laws, because He is the Creator of those laws.

The unmnaifest is not bound by the laws of existence. It is only living
creatures that are so bound. In our divine natures, we transcend the
rules of outer life, the patterns that govern how things can exist here
on earth. In our embodied selves, in bodies of flesh and blood, we're
playing a particular game of existence and bound by the current rules of
that game.

>
>Daniel
>Evangelical Polemist
>1Pet3:15

Perhaps you could quote the Gita, Zohar, Kabbala, Mahabharata, or other
holy book next time. It's important to see the Divine behind all things,
and not be blinded by outer forms.

-- Eldon