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Re: In the Lion's Den

Aug 30, 1995 10:51 PM
by Eldon B. Tucker

>Good Morning Everybody!!!
>I love it here in the Lion's Den.
>I want to thank you all for responding to
>my posts.
>Let me give you some background then I 'll
>give you some meat & potatoes.
>May 3rd, 1988 I commited my life to the Lord Jesus Christ.
>You may ask how I know He lives? And that TRUTH is
>real because He lives inside of me. The Spirit of Christ
>changed my heart, my life, and my mind.

It is helpful for us to understand your background when communicating
with you.

>In addition I was not looking for nor seeking Truth.
>The Truth found me.

I'd suggest that you'd feel equally comfortable with the Truth under
different labels. The experience of the spiritual is the same,
whether you use the mental picture of praying to Jesus, or to
Buddha, or to visualizing a Tibetan deity, etc.

>If I were to share my would declare that this
>young man was destined for trouble. I have had many
>opportunites to die young.
>Because of my drastic conversion and because of the Lord's
>direction and will I have been molded into a man that is
>best described as an EVANGELIICAL POLEMIST.

We all have to be careful with how we deal with the spiritual.
It it not the outer form that creates the spiritual, it is the
inner transformation in our heart and soul. It does not matter
what outer forms you use to describe your experiences. But you
don't uplift people by selling them on the outer forms; you do
so by lighting a fire inside their hearts. And that first has
nothing to do with a particular belief system, with membership
in a particular church, nor with the outward acceptance of
a particular belief system. The goal is to become Saints, and
to affect others by our saintliness, not to do a hard sell on
joining some get-spiritual plan that others have devised for us.

>I did not choose this, but I finally relaize what kind of pot
>I really am. So if I come on strong it is because I was made
>to be so. Granted there are times where I need not flex,
>and that is an issue of which I am growing daily.

Sometimes the feeling of a need to change others is misplaced;
it may come from a feeling of a need to take more spiritual
responsibility for our own lives, and from not dealing with
that feeling.

>I am not BETTER than anyone else, however since my
>re-birth I have been commited to knowing and studying
>every major/minor religion and most importantly who
>Christ was & is.

The concept of a rebirth in the spirit was taken by Christanity
from Easter Religions. The Sanskrit term is 'dwija', meaning
twice-born, someone born again of the Spirit. It's an old and
universal practice. Along with brotherly love, it is not an
exclusive gift to humanity by Christanity, as I've heard some
people suggest.

>I am familiar with the major world religions and other
>minor ones like URANTIA, ECKANKAR, and BA HAI.
>The Jehova Witnesses & Mormon's are certainly conditioned
>for failure.
>I can teach you many things. Check this out.

You're welcome to share your ideas, as a fellow student of
the spiritual. But we are here to share *our* ideas (and study
Theosophy), and not to sell everyone on our own particular
other side interests. If your primary intent is to convert
us to some particular sect of Christanity, you're probably
wasting your time, and should seek converts in more fertile
territory. From my point of view, I'd suggest that we "know
too much" to accept the typical narrow views found in popular
religions. We may have questioned and pondered basic assumptions
about life and existence that are never dared put to question
in a church, and our conclusions leave us thinking differently.

>It is kharmatic influence on this temporal existence that
>promotes the unification of thought, wisdom and understanding
>with those that have been brought to thread. Theosophic.
>It is by God's Grace that we share the Word of God together.

We are together in discussion. Why it arose, who knows? Perhaps
from prior karma. Where it goes depends upon our maturity in
deality with each other, and our flexibility in considering
what we believe in.

>I only claim to be a man of wisdom because I have decided
>to stop listening to a 31yr old lying, deceiving failure and instead
>learn from that which has continued over the millenia. The Word.
>It makes sense to me to listen to the likes of Isaiah, and Daniel,
>Moses, Abraham, John, Paul and Most importantly Jesus Christ.
>There wisdom has not been nor ever will be surpassed.

The same Wisdom is found in every religion, and is surpassed.
Christanity purged many significant ideas, like that of reincarnation,
in its early years. Many other great truths lie hidden in the Bible,
hidden in the form of story.

>The wisdom of your masters pales in comparison to THE MASTER.

This is your experience. I'd disagree from my experience.

>If you disregard YHWH, then you disregard the foundation of
>Theosophy in as far as that you desire truth and fellowship with
>those that claim mastership. All I am declaring is is that Jesus
>is the Master of masters. Why would you want to learn from
>second hand fools that cannot determine amongst themselves
>when to say yea or nae?

Any disagreement we have is with the ideas promoted by popular
religions. These ideas are incomplete, when not simply mistaken.
When we disagree with them, we're not disagreeing with some ultimate
deity, we're rather disagreeing with the followers of the mistaken

>If you take this personally...I understand. You should. I am
>attempting to awake the dead and bring sight to the blind.

>From the theosophical point of view, the reverse might be

>You cannot disregard the historical validity of this Master
>named Jesus of Nazareth. And if you do...Why?

Jesus was one of many Avataras, and not the last. The Bible is
not necessarily his word. Even a few lifetimes from now, you
won't even known his name or that of his religion; just a few
thousand years hence, many religions will have come and gone.
The religion suited to a wandering tribe of Jews, and to medieval
Europe, will not last far into the future without change. If it
survives long into the future, you won't recognize it some
lives from now.

>Do not blame the ignorant, or the hypocrites for your own
>fear of facing the one God Man that is the Light of the world.
>Do you want to seek light in the midst of darkness? Yes I know
>you do. Then why don't you seek the one who claimed to be
>that Light and not just one who attained light?

You're confusing what you think is a source of light (although
perhaps it is, to an extent, one for you) with the *only source,*
which simply is *not true.* There are many sources, which we
all can describe by personal experience.

>Double-mindedness and purposeful aversion of the truth
>reveals the embedded fear that has encamped the heart.
>Why are you afraid of Jesus Christ...and if you are not...then
>what conclusion can you make about Him?

There's no fear. Why don't you recognize the face of the Divine
throughtout the world, everywhere it is found, rather than limiting
things to one particular religious sect?

>The Tri-lemma stands...He is either Lord, Liar or a Lunatic.
>You see as a Polemist, I am called to confront YOU with
>the Truth about Jesus Christ the Light of the World.
>And as a polemist I too must resolve to learn and understand
>every available position that by grace is afforded me. It is
>by grace that I am posting to you.

There need be no singular deity, nor multiple deities to be
worshiped. No one created the totality of life; it has always been
and always will be. No church has any special claim for its
followers. We're all on our own, with individual responsibility
to *manifest spirituality* and brighten the world.

>I too will learn from you. But if you make an effort to say
>that YHWH is not a Master...then by what method do you
>determine this? If you mean he was not a master of Brahma
>or wise as of 1800A.D. then this is your foundation?

There does not need to be the idea of a "Master of All". The
idea itself is flawed, and we don't subscribe to it.

>There is declarations in scripture that revealed many Christophonies.
>A Christophony is the appearence of Christ prior to the incarnation.
>He is also declared the Creator of the Universe. Who do you think
>would have the Highest Wisdom and Understanding of the Creation?
>And again if you deny Him as Creator...Why?

There is no such thing. We don't need to deny it. With a little
thought, if you can allow your thinking to part with the party line
of your particular religious organization or background, you might
be able to consider this?

>Do you feel confronted? You should...I am fulfilling my calling
>in the Lion's Den. You are being Called! Will you talk with me
>or will you hide your face? Will you walk with me or will you
>run away?

We're not confronted. You're setting up straw men to knock over. We're
not threatened by orthodox religion, because its claims won't stand up
to careful analysis. Instead, I'd say that organized religions tend to
prevent people from becoming spiritual, since they encourage people to
give up their own ability to think independently and take responsibility
for their lives.

>Evangelical Polemist

-- Eldon

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