Theos-Talk Archives (June 1995 Message tl00067)

Sat. PM

Well, it seems that my questions on reincarnation has got Theos-l
posting left and right!

I want to at a later date when I have the time to respond to some
of the comments made by AB, JRC and others.  But I want to have
the time to carefully read their comments on reincarnation,
karma,etc.  and try to understand their perspectives.  Right now
in very general terms and without rereading and quoting their
exact statements, I want to pose several questions to JRC and AB
(and of course these questions are posed to everyone on Theos-l
including myself).

Both AB and JRC have expressed their skepticism about truth and
reality of "reincarnation" and "karma" as usually written about
in most Theosophical literature published in the last 100 years.
Both have asked where is the evidence and proof for
"reincarnation" and "karma".  How do those who beleive in these
"ideas" know, really KNOW, that these teachings are really part
and parcel of the fabric of the world in which we live? These are
good questions and each of us on Theos-l would do well to think
about these questions, their implications, etc.

But in order to try to understand JRC's and AB's background
assumptions, reasoning, etc.  better, I would like to ask them:

(1) If you are inclined to disbelieve in "karma" and
"reincarnation", what other theosophical "ideas" do you believe
are true? What other Theosophical teachings do you think have
been proven and what kinds of evidence are their that have lead
you to believe that these "ideas" have validity and reality?

For example, do you believe in "astral bodies" or "causal
bodies"? Is there good evidence to support a belief in some kind
of "life after death?"

Does "telepathy" or "levitation" occur? Did HPB's Masters exist?
Could HPB "materialize" cups and saucers?

Back to the bigger picture, do you believe in "other planes of
existence" or in "devas" or in the "Logos"?

And what evidence do you have that would show non-theosophists
that there is something to these other Theosophical beliefs,
*excluding karma, reincarnation, Lemuria and Atlantis?

It's good to be skeptical and challenge beliefs and assumptions
and it is valid to ask for evidence, proof, and good reasons for
believing in karma reincarnation, Lemuria, etc.  But if you
believe in other Theosophical ideas or concepts, then are you
also applying the same skeptical attitude, etc.  to these other
ideas?

Several weeks or months ago (??), JRC said something to the
effect that he did NOT believe in karma for several reasons.  One
of those reasons was to the effect that if karma was so
universal, etc, etc.  then why doesn't everyone in the whole wide
world accept? Sorry, JRC, if I am mutilating what you actually
wrote!! In other words, JRC was using that criterion to discount
the validity of "karma".  But if that criterion is a valid and
useful one, I ask in turn, what theosophical idea would pass the
test? In fact, what "belief" could such a test?

JRC, if I have muddled your argument on this, please correct me
and, if possible, post what you originally wrote.

What is my point? It is this: We can be skeptical to such an
extent, that I doubt that there would be any Theosophical tenet,
belief, teaching, idea or even any metaphysical "idea" that would
be acceptable.

What are the standards and criteria by which we judge the truth
or falsity of any "idea", etc.?

As far as I know, "science" (or the "scientific community") does
NOT even in 1995 acceptable the reality of ESP, PK, telepathy,
clairvoyance, out of body experiences, etc.  , etc.  How many
universities in the world have a department of parapsychology or
how many psychology departments in universities and colleges
throughout the world teach a course on parapsychology and accept
that such paranormal phenomena exist and are a part of everyday
life.  If we want to be really skeptical, I suggest JRC and AB
and others on Theos-l read and study some of the books published
by members of CSICOP and printed by Prometheus Press.  Start out
with Dr.  Paul Kurtz's book THE TRANSCENDENTAL TEMPTATION.

What can be proven and verifed in the Theosophical teachings and
in Theosophical history? Can we (whether JRC, AB, Dan Caldwell,
etc, etc.) pin down any "facts"? Some may think "karma" and
"reincarnation" fairly elusive concepts, vague and very, very
hard to "pin down"! That is, "ideas" way up in the clouds.  But
what other concepts or teachings are closer to the ground and
more verifiable?

In other words, I think JRC's and AB's "skeptical" comments have
opened up a whole can of worms.  And others on Theos-l should
examine their own "belief-system" involving karma and
reincarnation.  But in turn, JRC and AB should apply their own
skepticism to other parts of their own belief system.  I assume
they have one?! :)

All this is food for thought.  I hope my central point has been
communicted!

Daniel