Theos-Talk Archives (May 1995 Message tl00081)

The following are some comments about Eldon's recent posting:

<It should go without saying that none of us, in writing to
"theos-l", is making authoritative statements on behalf of the
Masters; we all speak for ourselves, for our personal
understanding of the Philosophy.>

We all need to keep this in mind.  I probably sound condescending
also at times, but never intentionally.  I have no Master or Guru
to refer to, just books and my own experience.  I have watched my
own worldview change over the years, and expect it to happen some
more in the future.  Thats what growth is all about.  So all I
can say is based on that and nothing more.  The same goes for
everyone.  This is one of the nice features of Theos-l - no one
is a Leader, and so we all are Leaders, in the sense that young
or old, we can all bring something to the group.

< Much is presented that does not come with specific tests,
trials, or proofs to undertake>

Very true.  I believe HPB somewhere says that this is an occuLt
law: that no occult truth will ever be fully provable to the
confirmed sceptic.  But I do think that theosophical teachings
must either change somewhat to accord with the findings of modern
science, or flatly refute those findings.  We can't stick our
heads in the sand and pretend that there is no conflict.
Scientific findings must either be assimilated or refuted.  As
far as chaos theory is concerned, I think that it can be
assimilated very nicely simply by a more in-depth look at Karma,
which is what I have been trying to do.

<Second, we are told the general way to obtain irrefutable proof
to the Teachings: live the life and then you shall know.  >

Yes, but how many lifetimes will this take? I agree with this
teaching up to a point.  The reverse, however, I think is always
true - that in order to Know, yoe have to live the life.

I am not so sure that living the life necessarily gives you any
proof of occult Teachings or theosophical doctrine.  I base this
doubt on my obervations of such notables as Mother Terisa (?? I
am never sure about the spelling) and other good people who
clearly live the life but whose grasp on the Teachings are
somewhat lacking.  This reminds me of the magic phrase, love
under will; love needs direction and guidance just as surely as
will needs to be gentled by compassion.  Compassion, which
generates the ability to live the life, needs the Teachings for a
proper balance.  The reverse is also true, for knowledge without
compassion is the path of Black Magic.  Tibetan Buddhism teaches
that we need both wisdom and skillful means or method, both bliss
(inner) and emptiness (outer).  Unfortunately our world has lots
of people with either the ability to love or to know, but
precious few with both.

<In a discussion when you're questioning the idea of karma, and
asking how we can possibly know about such ideas, it should be ok
for me to reply with the theosophical idea of an Inner Teacher,
or of a theosophic thought-current, that once the student is in
contact with, becomes a source of knowing about things.>

Beautifully phrased, Eldon.  As far as I am concerned, the inner
Teacher is the best Teacher one can ever hope to find.  I have
felt a strong and very particular thought-emotion (for want of a
better term) in theosophy that I have called the theosophical
current, and I think that this is what you must be referring to.
Its kind of like an atmosphere that you feel around you when you
study theosophy.  Of course, other currents exist as well;
practically every major religion and philosophy has one.  I
wouldn't go so far as CWL and try to give it a shape and color,
but I certainly can feel its presence.  In fact, I felt this
shortly after I came into theosophy over 25 years ago, and it is
still with me.

<It should be ok for me to bring up theosophical ideas, and speak
as though I thought they were true.>

I am as guilty as you on this one.  But again, if we all realize
that we can only speak from our own study and experience, this
shouldn't upset anyone.  'Thus have I heard' is well and good and
certainly has its proper place, but it doesn't have to preceed
every posting.  For a theosophist to speak with inner conviction
on theosophy is hard not to do.  Besides, I find lengthy quotes
from the Teachers boring and unhelpful for the most part, because
I have already studied and pondered them.  I prefer to hear what
people today think.

<This is a theosophical discussion group, and we should ...  give
fresh expression to what we've learned!>

Amen.  I will agree to tone down my condescending manner, if
everyone else agrees to realize that I am speaking solely from my
own study and experience, and that I am not on a soap box, even
though it may sound like it at times.  I am not a Master and make
no claim to being jivamukta (at least not yet).  I am a Seeker
like every other theosophist and if I sometimes sound like I know
more than anyone else, just rap my hands once and again to remind
me to keep my place.  I think that this syndrome of
self-knowledge comes from studying theosophy for too many years.
After awhile, I tend to think that I know what is REALLY going on
and I forget that all of the theosophical writings are just
fingers pointing in the right direction.  JRC, thank you for
reminding me, even if you didn't mention me by name (if the shoe
fits, etc.).

Jerry S.