Theos-Talk Archives (September 1994 Message tl00019)

To Nancy.

<Perhaps our real search is for a humbling
wholeness.>
Yes!  Humility *should* (there's that word
again.  sorry) always go with ethics.  One of
the problems that Betty and I have been
having with our latest foster child (girl of
9) is that she has a borderline personality
disorder (this is our diagnosis, actually you
can't technically label this until a person
is older).  When she tries to help us, she is
actually trying to dominate the situation.
She doesn't ask if we want help, she just
jumps in and does things without asking,
usually the wrong things.  We have been
teaching her that *help* is only given when
asked, and otherwise its just domination
(i.e., forcing yourself on someone else).
She uses ethical helping as a tool for her
own gain but she is getting better.  Its just
one more example of how ethics can be
dangerous.

<How can we tell if the desire is coming from
buddhi or kama?????>
Probably the best way is to look for motive.
Kama always seeks a reward, Buddhi doesn't
need one.


<Additionally, living AS IF something were
true, is a wonderful way to test a mental
construct.>
You just hit an important nail on the head.
In magic/yoga you are taught to act AS IF the
gods and goddesses are real.  The results are
better that way.  When a magician/yogi
advances to a certain point, he or she must
take the Oath of the Abyss (or something
similar) in which you swear to view every
event that happens to you during your daily
life for the next so-many days as a personal
interaction with God AS IF He were personally
directing your life for you. This has some
awful implications, forcing us to adopt a
whole new worldview, but it is necessary to
advance to the next stage.

<I too resonate to the psychological
interpretations that are current these days
and have a real curiosity about how to
explain the concepts of the subconscious,
unconscious etc using the 7-fold model.  Any
thoughts?>
Others have already commented on this one.  I
can only agree that psychology only goes so
far.  However, it does very well in
describing human behaviors and the human
mind.  As for the 7-fold model, psychology
looks mainly at the lower 3 or 4 planes,
except perhaps for the Jungian which, IMHO,
looks at the 5th as well.  Psychology has a
lot of models.  I personally prefer Jungian.
I would place his collective unconscious on
the 5th plane (counting upwards; the first
spiritual plane), the personal unconscious on
the 4th, and the ego and shadow each having
counterparts on the 3rd (manas) and 2nd
(astral).  Jung was one of the few great
psychotherapists who accepted the spiritual
or numinous element as a reality.  His
archetypes are simply our psychic
counterparts of external deities - I believe
in man as a microcosm, while Jung preferred
to avoid or ignore the macrocosm.  If you
realize the limitations of psychology, it can
be a very useful tool for you.  Let me give
you just one example of what I mean.  Many
theosophists (most everyone, for that matter)
believe that a Master is one who has thrown
out all of the bad elements of his
kama-manas, and retained only the good.  Many
people think that a saint is such because
their kama-manas has been purified, possibly
through lifetimes of ethics.  Jungian
psychology, however, tells us that this is
impossible.  The ego and shadow are like two
sides of a coin, and the ego can never
eliminate the shadow or dark side.  According
to Jung, a saint is one who is consciously
aware of their shadow, and who is able to
balance the ego and shadow at all times.  If
we look at the esoteric tradition of the
East, we will see that they too teach that
good and evil are two sides of a duality, and
that you cannot hold to one while eliminating
the other.  As long as we carry this human
body around, we will have both an ego (light
or good side) and a shadow (dark or bad
side).  The Path then, is not involved with
trying to eliminate our *bad*
characteristics, but rather turning inward
and seeing ourselves for what we are, and
accepting that, balancing that, and then
acting toward others accordingly.  In short,
Jung comes close at times to echoing
eastern ideas.  Now, if you want to talk
about buddhi or atma, then you will have to
look somewhere other than psychology.

           Jerry S.