Re: AAB, HB and HPB, Science, and Group Karma
Nov 04, 1993 12:55 PM
by Arvind Kumar
This message is a reply to Jerry H. but I have posed certain questions
in between which I hope others on the network will be interested in
looking at and possibly answering as well!
Thanks for your speedy reply to my message. I have a few quick
responses/ questions as inserted below. The indented parts are your
questions and the ones without indent are my responses/questions.
> In order to comment on the passage you cite in the S.D.
> concerning someone coming in the 20th century to "explain" more
> the book, I will need to know the page number where I can find
> this passage. Also, please advise me as to the edition,
> publisher and date of THE SECRET DOCTRINE that you are using.
> Editions vary in page numbering, and sometimes are even edited.
One problem I have is that I can access the 'network' only at work
which means that I donot have all my reference material with me when I
am writing to you.
I will have to look (with a fine-tooth comb!) again into SD to find
the exact page number but I'll try to do it over the next several
days. The edition of SD that I have is the original facsimile edition
which I purchased some 4 years ago (but started reading only a couple
of months ago). It is a two-volume set, with each vloume consisting of
two main parts, with some addenda at the end.
By the way, HPB indicates towards the end of Part 1 Vol 2 that she was
ready with Volumes 3 and 4 of SD. Were those ever published? Also, I'd
like to buy everything that HPB ever wrote. What is the best way to go
about that? You mentioned that you sell a few books yourself; can you
ship me a copy of the Divine Plan and also perhaps a catalog of books
that you carry? Can you bill me (or I can mail you a check if you let
me know your address etc.)
> I'm aware of AAB's statements that the `brothers' formed a
> part of a "Spiritual Hierarchy of the planet." My concern on
> this point is that I have never found such a hierarchical
> structure in HPB's writings. There are several possible reasons
> for this, e.g.: It was a deeper teaching that H.P.B. couldn't
> speak of; HPB misunderstood the organization; AAB misunderstood
> the organization; AAB misunderstood HPB, I misunderstood HPB, The
> teaching is really there, but in a writing I haven't yet read
> etc. The connection of the seven rays with a spiritual hierarchy
> is also, as far as I know, not in HPB's writings. Though this
> hierarchy idea is a basic point in our dialogue, it probably will
> take some time before we will have gathered together enough
> material to come to some meaningful conclusions.
For me the best place to get an understanding of the organization of
the Spiritual Hierarchy of this planet (the "inner government" as some
call it) is a small AAB book "Initiation, Human and Solar". Of course
there is a famous (but out of print) book published by TSA which has
pictures of the Masters (someone gave me a set of these beautiful
pictures, which I have gotten framed and hung on the walls of my
meditation room... I can probably find the author ofthis book if you
> Regarding my statement about the Mahatmas being regarded as
> "demi-gods," I was applying the statement to popular conceptions
> of them. I didn't mean to imply that AAB referred to them as
> such. But my impression is that AAB's characterization of them
> is more consistent with a popular conception than the one given
> by HPB and in the MAHATMA LETTERS. I'll expand on this idea
> later when I have a little more time, and after a little more
> foundation has been laid. But perhaps in the mean time, you will
> be able to show that I'm under a misconception.
AAB has stated that even the highest initiates when in physical
incarnation exhibit what I can term only as 'negative' traits. But the
point has been made by theosophists (e.g. Leadbeater in 'Masters and
the Path') that the Masters 'keep' a physical body. AAB has said that
the Christ has never really left the Earth (see for example
"Reapearance of the Christ" by AAB) so his imminent reappearance among
men in a physical body only refers to a widespread recognition of the
Christ by those who are not otherwise able to be aware of him.
Leadbeater and even AAB has indicated that the Christ has a place in
Shigatse where he blesses all humanity every day in the morning, at
noon and at 5 pm. I am also in a hurry and must leave this topic for
further exploration later...
> You mentioned the writings of Leadbeater. I have had
> several Bailey students tell me that AAB considered Leadbeater's
> writings "suspect." Everyone who has mentioned it, has regarded
> it as common knowledge, and I never was quick enough at the time
> to question them on it. Do you know the source of this
> information, and if true, the basis for her saying so?
I think Not everything that Leadbeater has written is suspect; only
the books that he wrote about the successive lives of Krishnamurthy
("Orion"?) and someone else are suspect. I donot think that the
Tibetan in AAB books has made any remarks about Leadbeater (although I
know he has at least at one place referred to Annie Besant). A local
Dallas based old-time theosophist shared this with me and I have no
basis to question its validity or otherwise.
> Regarding Benjamine Creme. Yes, we had some representatives
> from the Tara Foundation do a presentation at the Los Angeles
> Branch of the Theosophical Society, back in the late seventies. I
> also have somewhere, a tape of an interview he gave on the radio
> in Los Angeles. He acknowledges being familiar with the writings
> of AAB and HPB, but unless he really is the "predicted" messenger
> for the last quarter of this century, his testimony will throw
> little light on the present dialogue. At this time, I'm not
> convinced that he is, nor am I sure that he represents himself to
> be that "messenger."
I have met only one or two persons (on the phone) so far who have
refrained from criticising Benjamine Creme; as a matter of fact Lucis
Trust (which never takes a public position on any person)
representatives have clearly expressed their doubts about what
Benjamine Creme is saying. I subscribe to the monthly magazine "Share
International" (SI) published by Creme which is full of issues of
human concern and has articles supposedly by a Master of Wisdom (KH?)
What strikes me most about this magazine is the accuracy of their
forecasts.. for example, right after the Gulf War when Bush was at the
top of all popularity charts, SI predicted that he will lose the 92
election (which sounded like an impossibility at that time). He has
compared his role as similar to that of "John the Baptist". Let me
leave this also for now...
> Regarding Stephenson's book; are you saying that Leadbeater
> wrote that DK was given the mandate to give out the teachings in
> three installments? If so, where did Leadbeater write this?
Sorry, I did not mean that Leadbeater said that DK has the mandate to
give out the hierarchial teaching. In the book 'How I learnt
Theosophy'(if I remember correctly) Leadbeater has mentioned that on
one particular occasion he saw during the middle of the night that DK
had been giving some info to HPB. Also in Masters and the Path, L. has
talked about DK (but I do not remember if he has said that DK gave out
> I don't have a subscription to the BEACON, so issue and page
> number isn't necessary. Your citation that the quote is from an
> article entitled "The Principle of Limitation" by Mary Bailey,
> and that it appeared in the July-August `93 issue of the BEACON,
> is sufficient information for me at this time.
The quote by Mary Bailey is from one of the AAB books (I'll give you
the name of the books etc, when I get my copy of the Beacon back from
Rose Ewald, who has borrowed it from me; she is on the road right now
and I hope to get that issue of Beacon back only after a couple of
weeks or so. In the meantime let me leave you with another wonderful
quote from the article "Meditations of the heart" in the same issue of
the BEACON, indicating again the emphasis on love and service on the
part of AAB:
"Above all, seek to recover the fervor of your initial spiritual
aspiration and self-discipline. If you have never lost it (although
many of you have), seek towork out the energy of inspiration into an
effective display of definite action on the physical plane. "How", you
ask my brothers? By increasing the radiance of your light in this
world through love and meditation, so that others can look to you as
to a beacon light in this dark night of life which seems in this
century to have descended upon Humanity. Seek to love more than you
have ever believed was possible so that others, chilled and frozen
by life's circumstances and the horrors of modern day living, can look
to you for warmth and comfort."
The above is not verbatim, it is only what I recollect. I believe it
is from DK's message to a group of disciples in DINA (exact page
numbers etc to follow later).
Bye for now/Arvind
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