Theos-Talk Archives (October 1993 Message tl00061)

to Donald DeGracia -

     msgs 19-Aug-93 and 23-Aug-93 <hypnogogia>  This goes way back in
     time, but I feel compelled to revive the subject.  You said
     <...you can use this state as a spring board into astral
     projections/lucid dreams.>  I have some difficulty defining terms
     and in relating different kinds of experiences that might
     possibly be classed as dreams.  I experience three different kinds
     of "visualizations" that differ from each other and from the
     ordinary wide awake "seeing" of physical phenomena in the world
     external to my body.

     One, of course, is the ordinary dream state during bodily sleep.
     In this state, my body is inactive as to physical movement, and
     the dream images are moving.  In this state, I, rarely, although
     occasionally, can influence or control dream image activity.
     Also, the "scale of view" in this state is usually limited in
     size to nearby surroundings.  Entering this state is involuntary.
     Dream content is always benign.

     A second dream state is what I will term "vivid dream."  This
     appears to be induced by atenolol (tenormin) medication I am
     taking for angina pectoris.  My doctor has reduced the medicine
     strength, and I now rarely have this kind of dream.  It differs
     from the ordinary dream state in that the images are intensely
     graphic, and my body physically moves in concert with the
     movement of my bodily dream image.  Content is characterized by
     high levels of fear and defensive violence, and dream duration is
     very short.  If I don't awaken almost immediately, I invariably
     injure myself by striking or kicking a nearby wall or by throwing
     myself out of bed to the floor.  You can understand why I
     persuaded my doctor to reduce medication strength.  Now,
     thankfully, I rarely have this kind of dream.  It was completely
     uncharacteristic of my day to day life's experiences.  I don't
     want to sensationalize, but this, too, appears to be a dream state.

     The third dream state, if I may call it that, is what you have
     termed hypnogogia.  BTW, where did you find that term?  I have
     looked in my dictionary and the CompuServe encyclopedia and could
     not find it.  I am not an etymologist, but the first part of the
     term, "hypno," seems to suggest hypnotism.  Is this state a form
     of self hypnotism?  For me, it occurs in that strange world between
     full wakefulness and sleep.  I have not been able to willfully
     induce it by <...staring behind the eyes...> as you expressed it.
     It just seems to come of its own accord, and then very rarely.  The
     quality is quite different from the other two states described
     above.  Content is always benign, image quality is very clear,
     and scope includes a wide range, sometimes to a horizon.

     This third state, or hypnogogia, is so uniquely different from the
     first two above that I should perhaps forget about trying to relate
     all three as different kinds of dream experiences and just
     concentrate on hypnogogia for experimentation.

     I would like to know more about your own experimentation and what
     has resulted.  All this in the interest of working on the 3rd
     object of the T.S.

to Gerald Schueler -

     <msg 20-Aug-93 Many theosophists feel that enough has already been
     done (about work on the 3rd object of the T.S.), but I also think
     we need to do more.  But I am not sure that "hypnogogia" is the
     right way to do it.  The reason for my skepticism, is that the
     astral plane is notoriously illusive.>  Hypnogogia may be only
     one of many tools that might be useful in pursuing the 3rd object.
     Frankly, I don't know how or where to start.  Do you think of
     other "right ways to do it"?  I am not setting up contention by
     asking but only asking for expansion of your thoughts on this.

     <msg 22-Aug-93  Dreams SLEEP>  Thank you, Jerry, for the excellent
     paper on the subjects cited.  Although the contents had the "ring
     of truth" in them, I had some difficulty relating the technical
     theosophical concepts to my own experience.  I see no signs "you
     are now entering the astral plane."  For example, if one state
     of "dreaming" I experience can be so profoundly affected by
     medication, how can I know what plane I enter during this state?
     The fact that the experience can be modified by a physical
     substance makes me distrust my own physical or spiritual
     instruments.  Might not substances ingested from other sources,
     e.g., unhealthful food, polluted air and water, etc., cause one
     to experience distortions in the dream (or hypnogogic) state?

     I am sorry that I only have questions and no answers.

     Peace,

               Leonard Cole, CompuServe 71664,3642