Theos-Talk Archives (November 1999 Message tl00188)

Dallas wrote:

>To me, we have 3:
>
>1.  - I know I exist.
>2. -  You and the rest of the universe  "out there" also exist.
>3. -  We have on-going relationships of many kinds.  Consequently
>we are able to investigate those relationships.

Hate to nitpik, but, no, we do not know 1, 2, or 3.  We may BELIEVE we
exist, we may BELIEVE the universe exists, and we may BELIEVE we have
relationships, but we do not KNOW.  Descartes believed he was "thinking," -
was he really thinking or just believing that he was?

I mean, Dallas, do I exist "outside of you" or is my existence in your own
mind?  If you were to see me on the street, would that mean that I exist?
You read my posts, but is it another distinct being writing to you, or your
mind using clever means in which to talk to itself?  In dreams, I can
touch, hear, and feel 'things,' but do they exist?

Number three of your argument is especially touchy - how does a
relationship exist?  Does it cease to exist when you die?  If so, was the
relationship only in your mind?  In order to investigate a relationship, we
must become intimate with the one or thing with whom we are having the
relationship - if we cannot, then the relationship may only exist in your
own mind, whereas for the other person, maybe no relationship existed at
all.  So, did the relationship exist 'in its ownself' or only in your mind?
 If something can be considered existing, even if it only exists in one's
mind, then does everything we "think" exist?

Define "existence."  Is it material, thought-forms, both, neither,
something more, a combo, what?

I'm not being flippant here, really.  If one wants to say they "believe"
they exist, I do not have a problem with that, but to say "I know I exist"
causes a red flag to pop up in my brain.

Now, for me, if this red flag is not real, does not really exist, should I
ignore it and let my imaginary angst go when people say "I know I exist?"

Kym