Theos-Talk Archives (November 1999 Message tl00145)

----- Original Message -----
> From: W. Dallas TenBroeck <dalval@nwc.net>
> Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999 6:02 PM
> Subject: RE: more gradual/sudden path/ Re: sentimentality

> Nov 13
>
> REINCARNATION
>
> 1. Has logic and persuasion in it, if one considers that the
> Soul (Mind) of a Human being is immortal and eternal.  If that is
> denied, then it is useless to proceed.  It is agreed that the
> "embodied mind" of the present personality is destroyed with the
> body at death.

By whom is it agreed?  Many students of theosophy, who are following a
given teaching.  As for immortality and eternity, then this too is
"given" teaching which experience may suggest has some basis in fact,
but it still reamains an unproven assertion.
>
> 2. However there are many accounts of Seances and other
> experiences that would seem to imply a survival of the personal
> soul/mind at least for a while after physical death.  If those
> are discarded then the question of reincarnation might be still
> "sub judice."

Indeed, and I have many personal experiences which support - not prove -
this view.  We could, however, discard them without thereby discarding
reincarnation, as such experiences neither support nor deny it.
>
> 3. NDEs (Accounts of NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES) and reports of
> children and adults who remember "past lives" abound.  Are these
> to be discarded or is the matter to be held "sub judice?"
>
They are simply wjhat we call them - accounts of near death experiences.
I recently related one of my own.  I have also had a number of memories
of what appear to be past lives, but research suggests that these pasts
lives are not necessarily lives that I - under whatever guise - have
been personally engaged in.  Some of them seem clearly to be memories of
other people's lives.  I do not discard them, but neither can I prove
that they are true, or that my memory is reliable in all respects.  All
such evidence is sunjective to the person who experiences it.  There is
a plausibility to such evidence on the basis of what one writer (Robert
Crookall, "The Supreme Adventure") called "Travellers' Tales" - enough
people have reported enough similar experience to suggest that there is
probably a factual basis underlying it.

> 4. Most religions and philosophies speak of reincarnation
> although they may not (like Theosophy) give an extensive
> rationale for consideration.

Most or some?  If they do not give an extensive rationale for
consideration, then we are considering what is regarded as "revealed
truth."  This is the base claim of modern Theosophy.  At different times
under both different and similar circumstances, I have had it revealed
to me by what appear to be discarnate intelligence(s) that a)
reincarnation is a fact, and b) that it is not a fact.  If these
communications are what they appear to be, then there are other
possibilities.  One is that discarnate intelligences, *just like
ourselves*, do not agree on the matter!  Another is that reincarnation
is a fact for some people, but not for others, i.e., some people
reincarnate, and some do not.

So yes, the teaching on reincarnation IS kind of "sub-judice" or, which
I think is better, "not proven."  Neither of course is it "proven."
>
> I think these facts ought to be kept in mind.
>
As indeed they are, and fitting matters for discussion on a list such as
this.

A possibly apocryphal tale of Zen Buddhism:

The student at the Zen monastery was walking around the top of its very
high wall accompanying his teacher.

"Tell me, master," said the student, "is there life after physical
death?"

Without a word, the master pushed him off the wall.  After three days
some monks were sent to look for him.  As he was still alive, they
brought him back in and nursed him back to health.

The moral of this story is:

If you want to teach your grandmother to suck eggs, then you have to
suck them yourself for some time first.

Or is more vernacular terms, when presented with dogmatic assertions by
religions, theosophies and philosophies:

Suck it and see.

Alan

http://www.soft.net.uk/ambain/