Theos-Talk Archives (November 1999 Message tl00136)

In a message dated 11/12/99 8:16:01 AM Central Standard Time, dalval@nwc.net
writes:

> There has to be (logically) a point in any one life when the past
>  is made available and usable.
>
Why?  Everyone is moved by their own karma.  Why should the
malfunctioning of unenlightened living be "progressive" so that
there is "logically a point in any one life" where the person
begins to learn from it?  Again, here is the exact point, the
comment assumes two things that might be conflated: first
that everyone is driven by their own karma and that there is
a inevitable process of progressive evolution.  These two seem
to be identified in your account.  But that seems unwarranted
without further justification.

To explore whether one concept needs another, you can explore
if one can be conceived alone without contradiction or problem.
Thus, color cannot be imagined without spatial extension.
Now can we do the same with reincarnation?
It certainly seems conceivable (logically possible, and following
the Indian/Buddhist assumption that the logically impossible
is asat while sat (being) is logically possible) that some perverse
type could reincarnate again and again and never learn a damn
thing spiritually/ethically.  They never awaken from their malfunctioning.
And while Theosophy has its ninth sphere for such, unknown and
ignored by most westerners who want a happy ending no matter
how irresponsibly they waste their life (i.e., they will become
better in the next life/good in future life), both Hinduism and
Buddhism, for example, do have a final and ultimate hell of
no-return where the incorridgibly self-condemned take themselves.
It is the "deep place of no return" (padam gabhiram) that is the
"pit" (vavra) below and beyond all the hellworlds from which one
can be reborn out of, it is the self-imposed everlasting
prison-house for the spiritual psychopaths (duskritah).  In both
Hinduism and Buddhism, there is the view that reincarnation
is not guarranteed to be a progressive thing of spiritual
evolution.  Some go to the permanent hell by their own
karma.  The name of this hell is Narakasthanam.  It is
already mentioned as early as the Rgveda.

In Taoism, generally, you are born mortal.  You have
one life to waste or become an immortal.  Then you
can reincarnate.  But if all you are at the time of death
is the yin and lunar p'o soul or kuei spirit, it dies when
the body dies.  Sometimes it may last a little longer than
the body. One must, in this one life, develop the yang
shen soul in order to survive death, reincarnate, and
become an immortal.

The point is your comments seem to assume, without
supporting argument, that in short run or long run,
reincarnation = inevitable progress for everyone.  The
ancient traditions in their authenticity saw the
cosmos as a more chancy and risky place in
which one could screw up ultimately whether
one life or many.

Grigor