Theos-Talk Archives (November 1999 Message tl00117)

Nov 12

Dallas offers:  Let me try and make clear my meaning, Katinka.

Please allow me to insert some comments in the body of your
answer below.

In regard to the use of technical terms, like Atma -- the
"labeling" was used because I was under the impression that all
those (or most of those) who exchanged ideas over this study
group had read TEH KEY TO THEOSOPHY by HPB and knew those basic
"labels" and what they meant.

Dal

Dallas
dalval@nwc.net=A0

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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-----Original Message-----
> From: hesse600 [mailto:hesse600@tem.nhl.nl]
> Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Dallas - theos-l digest: November 09, 1999

> Dallas wrote:
>
> >What I mean is that sometimes sentimentality ( non-reasoning)
> >overwhelms us all.
>
> How is sentimentality "non-reasoning?"  Sentimentality is
another term for
> "tenderness."  Is tenderness "non-reasoning?"  To me,
tenderness is a very
> reasonable response to many events, persons, animals,
experiences, etc.
Sentimentality in my understanding is quite different from
tenderness. Sentimentality is there where a memory of some
kind is combined with some positive feeling.

DTB	Of course "sentimentality" and "tenderness" are separate.
But taking both together they are aspects of the "emotional
nature -- of that which could be "labeled" "Passions and
Desires."

therefore, I do not agree with Dallas that the positive aspect of
mind
is that it can look back. many things we call emotions are
in fact emotions+memory+thought and acquire their strength
and persistence from the combination.

DTB	I agree with what you say, Katinka:  "emotions + thought" is
what I call
Kama (desires and passions principle) PLUS Manas (the Mind
principle).  The combination is referred to by HPB as the "Lower
Mind" or the "Embodied Mind."

> >It is difficult to hold it in control, and when it goes of at
> >some tangent or another, it drags the "mind" or "reasoning
> >faculty" with it, usually.
>
> Agreed, but I postulate that logic, objectivity, and reasoning
can veer off
> into a tangent, causing harm, havoc, and pain.  Therefore, I
still do not
> see how reasoning is "superior" to emotions, including
sentimentality.

To me it seems that both have their place in things. When
the mind interferes with emotions, it usually does not work
well, especially if the mind has not taken the time to
observe emotion. On the other hand if emotion interferes
with mind (for instance when I am doing my math-homework)
it usually does not exactly help with that either. both
have their place.

DTB	Agreed -- and yet if we observe ourselves carefully we will
find that the embodied mind (whether doing homework, or anything
else) the "reason why" we do those things is largely "emotion" or
"desire".

Consider what the ancient Vedic sages said:

"Desire first arose in IT which was the primal germ of mind, and
Sages seeking with their "intellect" in their "heart" discovered
to be the bond between Being and Non-Being."

Cosmically, or individually, there is "desire" as a cause for
thought and mind-action.

At this point I would still say:  What is it in us that is able
to look at both the mind (thinking) and the emotions (feeling,
desire, passions) and apparently detached from either ?

It is this One Consciousness which is derived from the "ray of
the One spirit, the ATMA" which is resident in each of us and
forms the undying basis of our existence.

> >But who or what is the "WE" that even
> >considers "to control, or "not to control?"
I suppose it is that something that makes us
individual..Atma? But this is a beautiful example of how
theosophical labeling does not get us anywhere, because we
can decide together to call it Atma, but that does not
explain anything.

DTB	I try not to indulge in just "labeling" to no purpose -- but
as I said above I had assumed that we were all familiar with what
HPB wrote at least in the KEY to THEOSOPHY.

When I consider what someone else writes, I try to give it the
broadest parameters and see if there is something in the
doctrines of Theosophy that explains what is being said or
offered.

Best wishes,

Dal

-----------------------

Katinka
----------------------
NHL Leeuwarden
hesse600@tem.nhl.nl

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