Theos-Talk Archives (November 1999 Message tl00103)

Nov 11

See below please

Dal

Dallas
dalval@nwc.net=A0

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-----Original Message-----
> From: Gerald Schueler [mailto:gschueler@iximd.com]
> Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:08 AM
> Subject: Evolution

>>Theosophy posits that there is a double line of evolution, the
material and the Spiritual. ... The independent Minds, >>

Dallas, while you are simply quoting Blavatsky, I would like to
make a small point here. "Evolution" by its very definition
implies
progress=3Dchange over time. Depending on how we want to
define "spiritual" we could, in fact, say that anything spiritual
is perfect and therefore in no need of any "progress."

DTB	Not entirely correct.  "Spiritual" indicates to me an ideal
base or starting point.
It would be silly to deny that there are changes all around us.
But grasping opportunity to progress and using one's mind are
progressive (to me).
"Perfection" is not something definite, but infinitely
regressive, just as graduation from one educational "class"  to
another is also regressive in terms of both past and future
progress and achievement.
Actually what happens (as I see it) is that our minds grow to
accommodate more information and simultaneously we process this
seeking for those correlates that lead to an appreciation of the
laws of analogy.  These analogies can be traced everywhere in the
vast economy of Nature.

This idea of a spiritual evolution is, IMHO, plain crazy, unless
we
define "spiritual" as something below "perfection."  Some
would separate spiritual from divine and have the divine as
perfect and the spiritual as still evolving. If this is how you
see it, then you are at least consistant. But the offhand use
of the term "spiritual evolution," as if we know what it means,
throws off a lot of people and some outsiders read this and
conclude that Theosophy is full of fruitcakes.

DTB	Anyone might arrive at any conclusion, but like you those who
are truly interested question for meaning.  To me "spiritual
evolution" means the seeking for and application of "BROTHERHOOD"
in all aspects of life.  The implications of a "Universal
Brotherhood" are tremendous -- and for those who use that as a
commencement they can occupy a lifetime of inquiry and search, as
well as practice and experience.

As to matter evolving, we have to recall that Blavatsky
said that no plane can ever be skipped insofar as
manifestation is concerned. What this means, is that
all planes evolve, not just spirit (the highest three) and
matter (the seventh and lowest).

DTB	I see it that way also, but there are interrelations between
the planes that have to be described and then used by that
Intelligence that is able to do that.  To me that signifies the
mind.  So if one speaks of perfection, one also seeks to show how
right choosing is a part of right living, and in a way we get
back to the injunctions of the Buddha as to how we ought to
conduct our lives ideally.  and that leaves lots of room for
trial and error.

My own take is that to say there are two evolutions,
spiritual and material, is misleading. Blavatsky came out
with this for a reason -- in her day only physical
evolution was acknowledged. Today, just about everyone
will agree that the human mind or psyche also
evolves. But the fact is that all planes evolve, and so
our physical, affective, cognitive, and spiritual aspects
all evolve over time and they do so interactively. Each
is dependent on the others.

DTB	Agreed in general.  HPB came to show that the Spiritual at
one end and the Material at the other were constantly in relation
with each other and Perceived by a sense that might include what
is called, broadly, the psycho-mental.  She also tried to
demonstrate that the Mind is able to independently view both the
extremes and was itself an evolving faculty.

The real question is WHO ARE WE WHO USE AND DIRECT THE MIND ?

That question of WE is to my mind important.

Best wishes,

Dal

Jerry S.

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