Theos-Talk Archives (September 1999 Message tl00201)

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Art Gregory wrote that:

"Colonel Olcott in his testimony reports that he mostly
met these Masters in their "doubles' or astral double form. Most of =
these
contacts with Masters occurred to people in dreams and their =
fantasies...
If there was contact on the physical plane such contacts were brief and
fleeting and could be explained by mere coincidences and mistaken
identities... The human mind does this ... connects dots that are not
really verifiable or objective...given the power of suggestion, the =
person
you meet on the street could be a Koothumi."

***Mere*** coincidences and ***mistaken*** identities??

Compare (just for starters) Art Gregory's "Paul Johnson"-like =
description with
the following testimonies by Olcott at this URL:

http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/paranormal.htm#Appendix

Then compare Art Gregory's suggestion of the physical Mahatmas
as "mere coincidences" and "mistaken identities" with what Colonel
Olcott writes below:

OLCOTT'S ACCOUNT OF MEETING MASTER KOOT HOOMI IN NOVEMBER, 1883 ON THE
OUTSKIRTS OF LAHORE, INDIA is to be found in the third volume of =
Olcott's Old Diary Leaves:

"I was sleeping in my tent, the night of the 19th, when I rushed back
towards external consciousness on feeling a hand laid on me. The camp =
being
on the open plain, and beyond the protection of the Lahore Police, my =
first
animal instinct was to protect myself from a possible religious =
fanatical
assassin, so I clutched the stranger by the upper arms, and asked him in
Hindustani who he was and what he wanted. It was all done in an instant, =
and
I held the man tight, as would one who might be attacked the next moment =
and
have to defend his life. But the next moment a kind, sweet voice said: =
'Do
you not know me? Do you not remember me?' It was the voice of the Master
K.H. . . .I relaxed my hold on his arms, joined my palms in reverential
salutation, and wanted to jump out of bed to show him respect. But his =
hand
and voice stayed me, and after a few sentences had been exchanged, he =
took
my left hand in his, gathered the fingers of his right into the palm, =
and
stood quiet beside my cot, from which I could see his divinely benignant
face by the light of the lamp that burned on a packing-case at his back.
Presently I felt some soft substance forming in my hand, and the next =
minute
the Master laid his kind hand on my forehead, uttered a blessing, and =
left
my half of the large tent to visit Mr. W.T. Brown, who slept in the =
other
half behind a canvas screen that divided the tent into two rooms. When I =
had
time to pay attention to myself, I found myself holding in my left hand =
a
folded paper enwrapped in a silken cloth. To go to the lamp, open and =
read
it, was naturally my first impulse. I found it to be a letter of private
counsel. . . On hearing an exclamation from.[Brown's] side of the =
screen, I
went in there and he showed me a silk-wrapped letter of like appearance =
to
mine though of different contents, which he said had been given him much =
as
mine had been to me, and which we read together. . . .The next evening. =
.
.we two and Damodar sat in my tent, at 10 o'clock, waiting for an =
expected
visit from Master K.H. . . .We sat on chairs at the back of the tent so =
as
not to be observed from the camp: the moon was in its last quarter and =
had
not risen. After some waiting we heard and saw a tall Hindu approaching =
from
the side of the open plain. He came to within a few yards of us and =
beckoned
Damodar to come to him, which he did. He told him that the Master would
appear within a few minutes, and that he had some business with Damodar. =
It
was a pupil of Master K.H. Presently we saw the latter coming from the =
same
direction, pass his pupil. . .and stop in front of our group, now =
standing
and saluting in the Indian fashion, some yards away. Brown and I kept =
our
places, and Damodar went and conversed for a few minutes with the =
Teacher,
after which he returned to us and the king-like visitor walked away. I =
heard
his footsteps on the ground. . . .Before retiring, when I was writing my
Diary, the pupil lifted the portiere, beckoned to me, and pointed to the
figure of his Master [K.H.], waiting for me out on the plain in the
starlight. I went to him, we walked off to a safe place at some distance
where intruders need not be expected, and then for about a half-hour he =
told
me what I had to know. . . There were no miracles done at the interview. =
.
.just two men talking together, a meeting, and a parting when the talk =
was
over. . . ." (pp. 37-39, 43-45, 1972 reprinting.)

Notice Olcott's words:  "for about a half-hour he [Master KH] told me =
what I
had to know".

Is this "brief" and "fleeting" as Art Gregory would want us to believe?

More accounts for comparison can be found at:

http://www.blavatsky.net/gen/refute/caldwell/johnson1.htm

If Art Gregory wants us to accept the  real "truth" about the Masters =
then he will have to
first deal with the specifics such as I've outlined above.  Gregory's =
reliance on
general vague statements while ignoring such specifics and details does
not win me over to his argument.  In fact, I'm completely puzzled by his =
reasoning.

Daniel Caldwell

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Art Gregory wrote that:<BR><BR>"Colonel =
Olcott in=20
his testimony reports that he mostly<BR>met these Masters in their =
"doubles' or=20
astral double form. Most of these<BR>contacts with Masters occurred to =
people in=20
dreams and their fantasies...<BR>If there was contact on the physical =
plane such=20
contacts were brief and<BR>fleeting and could be explained by mere =
coincidences=20
and mistaken<BR>identities... The human mind does this ... connects dots =
that=20
are not<BR>really verifiable or objective...given the power of =
suggestion, the=20
person<BR>you meet on the street could be a =
Koothumi."<BR><BR><BR><BR>***Mere***=20
coincidences and ***mistaken*** identities??<BR><BR>Compare (just for =
starters)=20
Art Gregory's "Paul Johnson"-like description with<BR>the following =
testimonies=20
by Olcott at this URL:<BR><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/paranormal.htm#Appendix";>htt=
p://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/paranormal.htm#Appendix</A><BR><BR><BR>=
Then=20
compare Art Gregory's suggestion of the physical Mahatmas<BR>as "mere=20
coincidences" and "mistaken identities" with what Colonel<BR>Olcott =
writes=20
below:<BR><BR>OLCOTT'S ACCOUNT OF MEETING MASTER KOOT HOOMI IN NOVEMBER, =
1883 ON=20
THE<BR>OUTSKIRTS OF LAHORE, INDIA is to be found in the third volume of =
Olcott's=20
Old Diary Leaves:<BR><BR>"I was sleeping in my tent, the night of the =
19th, when=20
I rushed back<BR>towards external consciousness on feeling a hand laid =
on me.=20
The camp being<BR>on the open plain, and beyond the protection of the =
Lahore=20
Police, my first<BR>animal instinct was to protect myself from a =
possible=20
religious fanatical<BR>assassin, so I clutched the stranger by the upper =
arms,=20
and asked him in<BR>Hindustani who he was and what he wanted. It was all =
done in=20
an instant, and<BR>I held the man tight, as would one who might be =
attacked the=20
next moment and<BR>have to defend his life. But the next moment a kind, =
sweet=20
voice said: 'Do<BR>you not know me? Do you not remember me?' It was the =
voice of=20
the Master<BR>K.H. . . .I relaxed my hold on his arms, joined my palms =
in=20
reverential<BR>salutation, and wanted to jump out of bed to show him =
respect.=20
But his hand<BR>and voice stayed me, and after a few sentences had been=20
exchanged, he took<BR>my left hand in his, gathered the fingers of his =
right=20
into the palm, and<BR>stood quiet beside my cot, from which I could see =
his=20
divinely benignant<BR>face by the light of the lamp that burned on a=20
packing-case at his back.<BR>Presently I felt some soft substance =
forming in my=20
hand, and the next minute<BR>the Master laid his kind hand on my =
forehead,=20
uttered a blessing, and left<BR>my half of the large tent to visit Mr. =
W.T.=20
Brown, who slept in the other<BR>half behind a canvas screen that =
divided the=20
tent into two rooms. When I had<BR>time to pay attention to myself, I =
found=20
myself holding in my left hand a<BR>folded paper enwrapped in a silken =
cloth. To=20
go to the lamp, open and read<BR>it, was naturally my first impulse. I =
found it=20
to be a letter of private<BR>counsel. . . On hearing an exclamation=20
from.[Brown's] side of the screen, I<BR>went in there and he showed me a =

silk-wrapped letter of like appearance to<BR>mine though of different =
contents,=20
which he said had been given him much as<BR>mine had been to me, and =
which we=20
read together. . . .The next evening. .<BR>.we two and Damodar sat in my =
tent,=20
at 10 o'clock, waiting for an expected<BR>visit from Master K.H. . . .We =
sat on=20
chairs at the back of the tent so as<BR>not to be observed from the =
camp: the=20
moon was in its last quarter and had<BR>not risen. After some waiting we =
heard=20
and saw a tall Hindu approaching from<BR>the side of the open plain. He =
came to=20
within a few yards of us and beckoned<BR>Damodar to come to him, which =
he did.=20
He told him that the Master would<BR>appear within a few minutes, and =
that he=20
had some business with Damodar. It<BR>was a pupil of Master K.H. =
Presently we=20
saw the latter coming from the same<BR>direction, pass his pupil. . .and =
stop in=20
front of our group, now standing<BR>and saluting in the Indian fashion, =
some=20
yards away. Brown and I kept our<BR>places, and Damodar went and =
conversed for a=20
few minutes with the Teacher,<BR>after which he returned to us and the =
king-like=20
visitor walked away. I heard<BR>his footsteps on the ground. . . .Before =

retiring, when I was writing my<BR>Diary, the pupil lifted the portiere, =

beckoned to me, and pointed to the<BR>figure of his Master [K.H.], =
waiting for=20
me out on the plain in the<BR>starlight. I went to him, we walked off to =
a safe=20
place at some distance<BR>where intruders need not be expected, and then =
for=20
about a half-hour he told<BR>me what I had to know. . . There were no =
miracles=20
done at the interview. .<BR>.just two men talking together, a meeting, =
and a=20
parting when the talk was<BR>over. . . ." (pp. 37-39, 43-45, 1972=20
reprinting.)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Notice Olcott's words:&nbsp; "for about =
a half-hour=20
he [Master KH] told me what I<BR>had to know".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Is this "brief" and "fleeting" as =
Art Gregory=20
would want us to believe?<BR><BR>More accounts for comparison can be =
found=20
at:<BR><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.blavatsky.net/gen/refute/caldwell/johnson1.htm";>http:/=
/www.blavatsky.net/gen/refute/caldwell/johnson1.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If Art Gregory wants us to accept =
the&nbsp; real=20
"truth" about the Masters then he will have to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>first deal with the specifics such as =
I've outlined=20
above.&nbsp; Gregory's reliance on</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>general vague statements while ignoring =
such=20
specifics and details does</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>not win me over to&nbsp;his =
argument.&nbsp;=20
In fact, I'm completely puzzled by his reasoning.</FONT><BR><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Daniel=20
Caldwell<BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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