RE: Theos-World "Spiritual culture" answering some inquiries
Oct 04, 1998 05:30 AM
by W. Dallas TenBroeck
Oct 4th 1998
Thanks comments interjected below
>Sent: Sunday, October 04, 1998 12:48 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World "Spiritual culture" answering some inquiries
W. Dallas TenBroeck wrote:
> Oct 2nd 1998
> Dear Mark
> Thanks for your comments.
> I believe that "crossing the Abyss" has a special meaning for
> some students. But I have not met it as an expression in the
> writings of HPB. The abyss needs definition.
> Do you mean perhaps the passage from
> 1. the realm of forms and personality - of selfishness and the
> desire for personal gains during this one life we are familiar
> with, to
> 2. the realm of impersonality, idealism, virtue, generosity,
> assistance, universality and permanence, etc ?
I'll leave the exposition of the "Abyss" to Jerry (and Alan) as
wont to use it. This is abstract stuff.
It's a Kabbalistic term.You'd have to research HPB's view on
fit it into your view.
I was responding more directly to your statement about
don't see selfishness solely in a pejorative sense. To me it also
defines the de facto state of waking experience in the lower
Because of identification with the seeming integrity of these
or aggregates as Buddhists call them, which develops as a result
normal course of living in a society in the physical world, we
"personalities." This identification is as "one among many." It
completely natural, has a temporal and social context to it and
has as a defining characteristic, a sense of separation, illusory
may be. This is the "normal" state of affairs in the waking
Regardless of any social context that seeks to measure its moral
qualities, it is essentially "selfish" in the sense that it
own boundaries by a perceived sense of "self" and others. This is
"personality" locus or the "Personality Ray."
Dallas, you are IT, when you're being "Dallas," and I'm IT when
being "Mark." N'cest pa?
OUI, C'est vrai.
That's what I was trying to say. It's more or less stating the
My position is just a matter of including this de facto view as
any social pejorative one.
Understood - when embodied and in the waking state the personal
consciousness is selfish and isolated -- the "aggregates" or
"samskaras /skandhas" as I understand it are those "Monads" upon
which we have imposed either our thought, feeling or will, and
therefore become for a longer or shorter time (under Karma)
"attached" to us as a center.
As I understand it the Buddhistic and also the Theosophical
approach to this situation is to try to harmonize all karmic
links so as to become an impersonal force for good alone - in
other words "to become karma-less."
I would also observe that "Consciousness" per se is in itself
separate from any state that "we" may be in, and consequently is
a unitary "thread of being" on which or in which, all experience
is recorded and seen.
The statement about a "messiah complex" refers to those people
the course of their spiritual and moral development, sometimes
subtle sense of superiority or elitism. It's typical of the zeal
recent converts, where they feel a need to evangelize, "save"
tell everybody what they've experienced or learned. They often
through a phase where they consider themselves somehow, not
"personal" anymore (while they yet maintain, or are forced to
when they wake each morning, the very mechanism which defines
it). It is
sometimes supported by their group affiliation. No doubt there
alchemical adjustments happening intra-psychically. I just find
subtle sense of denial mildly amusing. They usually have an
of their own limitations soon enough and can get very confused,
frustrated and humbled when faced with the obvious fact that they
still, all too human. It's a delicate time, but indicative that
process of spiritual transformation has begun.
Somehow, a contact has reached the fringes of the conscious
field from deeper within it and is actively restructuring core
patterns and referents. An active and experiential mystery
ITSELF in the very core of personality. Esoterically, this
to the Christian initiation of "Baptism," or rebirth by the
the Holy Spirit into a person. "Descent into" is perceived by the
recipient as an mystic ontological illumination from within the
their sense of conscious personal identity. They are "reborn in
by this mystic Presence of the Spirit (or LOGOS) now consciously
informing (and transforming) the identic reality of who "THEY
"Boom," a light turns on, a sun (Son) appears in the darkness
"you," and "IT's" gravity now makes "you" orbit and relate to
instead of the previous sense of the integrity of personality
unconscious darkness at it's core that used to be the center of
conscious identification. I don't know any other way to say it
perhaps with poetry or symbols.
I understand what you say and mean - and I would agree that in
some cases it can become another state of selfishness with the
added confusion of thinking that one is important, and with
enthusiasm one starts off doing things without truly apprehending
the ultimate consequences - perhaps one might characterize this
with the "dangers of a little knowledge."
On the other hand it is better to try to do some good, however
limited one's perspective than to become inert.
> The "spiritual" union that preserves individuality happens at
> level > of the Causal Body. The higher initiations eventuate in
> dissolution > of the Causal vehicle.
> Well it is a good idea to see how this is defined. On p. 74 of
> the THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY, HPB defines it as, in part :
> "This "body" which is no body either subjective or objective,
> BUDDHI, the Spiritual Soul...is the direct cause of Sushupti
> condition leading to the Turya state, the highest state of
> Samadhi. It is called KARANOPADHI [ see SD I 157, KEY 121-2,
> 136 ] "the basis of the Cause," by the Taraka Raj
> alone could not be called a "Causal Body," but becomes so in
> conjunction with Manas, the incarnating Entity or EGO." T.
> p. 74
OK. A lot of fancy sounding foreign words. What do they mean to
Their only value is to show that those concepts were known and
current in antiquity - an antiquity of study of which Theosophy,
Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism , etc., etc. are all
Since Theosophy was "recorded" for many peoples with various
historical antecedents, this may mean more to them than to us
with our limited Euro-American education. We may have to meet
and discuss matters with others who have their own antique
backgrounds - this can give us the facility of dealing with them
with greater ease if we know those ideas and words.
> I do not see, logically, how "higher initiations ( Of what
> where ? ) would cause the dissolution of the "Causal body." If
> anything they would tend to spiritualize and reinforce it in
> scheme that HPB describes.
Yes, for a while, however long that cycle of necessity is. But
something else happens and it may or may not be perceived as
Think of it this way. When the long cycles of experience in the
incarnation have developed in you the capacity to be conscious on
Causal level, you eventually experience a naturally ordained
"initiation' whereby the locus of your consciousness shifts to
the sense of identity there. To put it metaphorically, you become
transfigured as "the Anointed" or "the Christ." Your fundamental
of identity is changed.
Then, after cycles of experience and action from that state, and
concomitant aspiration for union with "THAT which is still higher
ALL that is ONE with THAT" (remember Jesus always said things to
effect of "If you see me, you see Him who sent me," "I and my
one," and The Father worketh hitherto and I work, etc.") there
eventuates the capacity of conscious experience or identification
the Monad (the Father which is in Heaven"). Another naturally
experience and shift of the locus of conscious identification
I am in agreement with what you describe.
These higher initiations are a process in which the "Christ"
the "Father." This is all metaphoric in Christian terms, but the
of this esoterically is said to be the dissolution of the Causal
and absorption of consciousness into the Monad. This is not to
the Monad ever loses the capability to vibrate, create the
will and descend again to appear, experience or work on the
level. The Monadic Ray consciousness is just now beyond the
Just as some of the Masters are said to exist on inner planes and
longer need to incarnate physically, so too, at higher
consciousness of the Monadic ray no longer needs to hold the
identity on the Causal level to exist. It has gained/merited the
of experience to the higher consciousness of the Monad per se.
It, as a
"separate" individuality disappears. The characteristic that
mayavic state of individuality (i.e., the Causal vehicle or true
dissolved. Full cycle return.
The monad is One. It is not "one among many." Monas Monadum. The
of Monads. This is a total Mystery.
You're literal devotion to the letter of HPB is often laudable,
also become an impediment to the conscious experience of the
identity within you. The result of faith in the "letter of the
Law" is a
continual sustenance of the separating experience of self (you)
other (the Monad You Are). Necessary for a season, perhaps, but
carrying with it this conditional limitation. When Jesus was on
cross crucified, there was a moment when he let go, so to speak.
the part of the Gospel where he says "my God, my God, why has
forsaken me?" Without that experience of being totally "alone,"
detaching from an identification as "other," he could not
initiation whereby he becomes "All-One." It is said to be the
complete and utter abandonment. These are the sequence of higher
initiations I was referring to.
There are several books in Theosophical literature that detail
esoteric interpretations of Mystic Christianity. They might be
to you or provide another point of view to supplement your
erudition and understanding. Maybe you're already familiar with
And thanks to you too. There are here more points of agreement
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