Theos-Talk Archives (January 1997 Message tl00238)

Titus wrote:

>I don't think, for example, that a plant reincarnates and will become more
>conscious. That's one difference in destiny. Animals are invaluable supports
>to man and may reincarnate, but I don't think they will evolve in
>consciousness as we do. 

Why do you think a plant doesn't reincarnate?  A plant is composed of
measurable energy - where do you think the energy goes upon death of the plant?

This I find particularly perplexing: "Animals may, but I don't think they
will evolve in consciousness as we do."  Would you consider them evolving at
all? If so, into what?  What different kind of consciousness do you think
they will evolve into?

A quick read of "When Elephants Weep" may change your mind about looking at
animals as our "support."  Animals suffer, die, love, fear, grieve,
experience happiness, and make moral decisions.  Their corporeal form and
lack of language may be the primary differential.  Many animals have the
reasoning capability of infants and children - even of some adults I know.
I am assuming you think infants and children will 'evolve.'  Why wouldn't
animals?

>Is there a statement behind the question?

Affirmative. There is more evidence to support the opposite of what you
claim.  Plants, animals, and humans are all imbued with the same basic
aspects: Consciousness, Energy, and Form.  Put very simply, if all is of the
same Source, composed of the same elements - upon death, the
Consciousness/Energy would dissipate, but not disappear.  The Energy would
be drawn into another form, would it not, driven by the desire to create?


>>> Jesus also drew many analogies with human life from
>>> nature, nevertheless He put man on a different footing than anything else in
>>> creation. For example (Matthew 10:29-31)

I don't gather Jesus to be implying nature is on a different "footing" than
humans - or, using your gender-exclusive term, "man."  If anything, Jesus is
acknowledging that sparrows have the attention of God.  Jesus was speaking
to his listeners in terms they could understand - using an analogy of money.
I don't think Jesus had the time to teach the even broader, more complex
philosophy of interconnectedness to a group of humans who were just getting
a clue about themselves.

>In my very pedestrian understanding of Ecclesiastes, it seems to me the author
>is using another example of how transitory one life is. We will lose all
>earthly things we vainly strive for - and in this respect share the same fate
>as animals. "All is vanity and vexation of spirit." Are you interpreting it
>differently? Please say more.

To me, Ecclesiastes is saying the same thing Socrates said: "An unexamined
life is not worth living."  The author of Ecclesiastes surveys life,
realizes that knowing the absolute, real truth is impossible, and decides
that serving God is the surest route in an unsure world.  Ecclesiastes asks
a very pointed question: "Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if
the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"  It seems you do. 

Concluding that the spirit of animals goes upward is less fraught with
disaster than supposing the opposite.  Christianity is real good at looking
at the world this way, and thus, we have the exploitation of the planet and
nature.  If, from the beginning, Christianity had seen it the other way, the
world would have been a much different place.  Recognition of merit results
in management with respect. Anthropocentricism has failed us.


>There is more to life than karma. God is certainly large enough to contain the
>law of sowing and reaping - and then some. There are "gifts" from God that we
>certainly haven't fully earned, but receive out of His Love. 

"Gifts?"  "Fully earned."  Again, this places God smack in the middle of the
'teacher's pet' problem.  As long as we believe what we have or lack is
somehow God's doing and choice, we will forever remain wibble-wobbled by
events.  When something goes wrong and we find ourselves unable to cope -
well, guess it was "God's Will," S/He/It was displeased, or simply in a
vinegary mood.  If things go well, God has noticed our fine performance and
has rewarded us for making S/He/It happy.

It makes God's Love seem too human.


Kym