Theos-Talk Archives (December 1996 Message tl00410)

To Bart Lidosfsky regarding misquote:
I must apologize to Bart Lidosfsky as my reply to Tom Robertson's
Sexism post was accidently attributed to the wrong person. I had
intended to include the whole header with Tom Robertson's name in it.
Bart Lidofsky I hope you can accept my apology.

Re: April Joy's idenity:
>John Straughn:
 >Ack.  Really?  You didn't post the April Joy thing?  Who did?

     I am she. I sent my post and them Alan quoted part of it.

 > Ack squared. That's impossible, she's dead! jk.
 > I've never seen April Joy on here before. She only pops in every once
 > in a while?  Mumble.

    My death has been greatly exaggerated. This is the second time I
    have posted to this mail list.

>Art House:
  > You mean Alan is not April Joy? S=o)

    Not unless we switched souls briefly.

> Alan:
> Hmmm - I haven't checked the current subscription list since November,
> but someone posted either *as* "April Joy" or quoting "April Joy."
> Maybe there is someone called "Spring Fun" doing it.  Anyhow, 'twasn't
> I.

   I subscribed in late November.

> The Triaist:
> I tell you.  It's Alan's alter ego.  Notice how he responds with words
> like "brilliant" to her post.  S=o)

   Thanks Alan.

> Chuck the Heretic:
> Is she any relation to April Showers?

  I haven't heard that one since grade school.

> Mark:
> best to you all,
> and remember,        *** "April Joy Lives!" ***

  She also post, dances and sings out of tune.



To Tom Robertson:
> I find it interesting how a man can write an article saying that he
> believes that men and women are basically equal and then mentions one > way in which he believes men are superior, and that a woman can write > an article in response saying that men and women are basically equal, > and then mentions 23 ways that she considers women to be superior, and > the same man, responding to both, can call the male author a "sexist
> bastard" and call the post of the female author "brilliant."  Maybe
> the name of this list should be renamed "Crusading for Feminism."  It > is my understanding of Theosophy that it considers balance, not
> matriarchy, to be the ideal.

At what point in my initial reply to you did I say women were superior?
I do not believe either gender is superior. The upper hand was kept by
the brainwashing of women from birth to death for centuries. Man molded
women in an image of a child and worked to have them believed they had
little or no worth. This brainwashing and molding was helped by the
power of the church, religious leaders (male) who preached that women
must pay for the sins of Eve as well as be submissive to their husbands,
fathers, brothers. Women were so indoctrinated in this belief that they
could not fight for their rights because they would have sinned against
God and dishonored there male relatives and husband.

But slowly women woke up looked around and said no more. I am more than
you allow me to be. By giving the direction of their lives to men they
had lost the right to live freely and control their own destiny. Women
are fighting for what they gave up to be loved by man and God.
Women fight for the same rights and priviledges that some men feel is
their exclusive right. It isn't about superiority it is about equal
opportunity, freedom, and the right for a women to own herself.

John Straughn:

> Downplays?  I don't understand.  What about the fact that the
> prejudices men face have encountered and are still encountering have
> been downplayed for years.  For instance, if I want a job as a
> secretary, I probably won't get it because I am a man.  If I want to
> be a bank teller.  Well, I can pretty much forget about that too.

John, there are male tellers at almost every bank I have been to. Also I
was a temporary secretary for a while and I have worked at many
different business. During that time I met many male secretaries. Bank
teller and secretarial fields are not closed to men. Men are often
closed to trying work in these fields because THEY consider it to be a
womans job. I knew one male secretary that would go ballistic if  you
called him a secretary, he was an Assistant.

> A female CEO will refuse to hire a male secretary because she feels
> that she would be inhibiting the rise of women in the job market if
> she did so ...

I have not seen a case where a women would not hire a male secretary in
order to hire a woman. I find that some CEO women, unfortunately, will
often stand in the way of other women. Sometimes the glass ceiling over
the heads of women are being held over them by the women who have gone
before them.

> Perhaps(no, definitely) I wasn't making myself very clear.  These are
> present concerns for women, and should be properly addressed.  But men
> are faced with prejudiced decisions as well.  (Custody battles favored
> toward women; abortion rights (it's the father's child as well);
> welfare (which is MUCH harder for a single man even with children to
> recieve); Job discrimination (i.e. "female" jobs: bank tellers,
> secretaries/clerks, social workers);  Medical research
> (Breast Cancer vs. Testicular cancer, for instance); and others).
> Men have just as much going against them as women.  It's just that
> men, for fear of being accused of losing their "masculinity" choose
> not to say much about it.

Custody battles are not favored toward women. Women must hold themselves
to a higher moral stander than man do to keep their children. Recently a
woman lost her children because of her sexual orientation not because of
the care her child received. A woman can lose her children if the father
claims she is seeing more than one man, while it doesn't matter how many
women the man is "seeing". In court a woman's sexual past is admissible
while often the man's sexual past is not allowed into the hearings. As
with the OJ trial a womans abuse from a husband/boyfriend is not always
allowed as evidence of character of the man in a court hearing.

Until recently if a woman was abused by her husband she was encouraged
by churches, legal system and social system to return to her husband and
be a good wife. For too long if a woman had a sexual relationship with a
man she lost the right to her body. If she was beat up, it wasn't abuse
it was a "domestic fight".  Now women are being listened to and are
having some help to escape their abusers.

> If a man slaps a woman across the face because she slapped him (which
> is something I would never do, but this is hypothetical) and she calls
> the police, the man will be thrown in jail.  In court the man will
> testify that his wife hit him first.  Ya know what happens?  The judge
> laughs and says "Three years".

Men don't get thrown in jail that easily, but if they do they are
usually out the next day. Very rarely does a man get 3yrs for hitting a
women if he has a relationship with that woman. The "relationship"
status often nullifies a status as victim of assault to a charge of
"domestic brawl". Especially if the woman hits back. I have seen one
case of where the woman hit the man and she hit him and the police took
the woman to jail. But more often woman are the abused not the abuser.

I have been in a domestic abuse situation and it is very difficult to
prove abuse by a man. The legal system goes to great length to make
women drop the charges. If it goes to court the Judge will give the man
a slap on the wrist with a suspended sentence or community service. It
usually takes the near death or death of a woman for most men to receive
any length of time in jail.

---

At the present time more men have greater job security, opportunity and
legal rights that women. While this situation is slowly being balanced
inequities will occur. These inequities need to be fixed so that the
pendulum of sexism, prejudice, doesn't swing to far to one side but rest
in the middle where true justice and equality lives.

April Joy (also known as Kellas Cat on several discussion boards)


Some Favorite Quotes: (quotes, I love them quotes)

"We, and all others who believe in freedom as deeply as we do, would
 rather die on our feet than live on our knees." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason." - Oscar Wilde

"I prefer liberty to chains of diamonds." - Lady Mary Wortley Montagu

"A man on a date wonders if he'll get lucky.  The woman already knows."
- Monica Piper

"People call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that
differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute." - Rebecca West

"If the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle." - Rita
Mae Brown

"Whenever people say "we mustn't be sentimental", you can take it they
are about to do something cruel. And if they add, "we must be
realistic", they mean they are going to make money out of it."
Brigid Brophy

"Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority."
Doctor Who

"Nothing is so strong as gentleness, and nothing is so gentle as
true strength." - Ralph Sockman

Break the legs of an evil custom.    -- Italian Proverb