Theos-Talk Archives (June 1996 Message tl00493)

At 07:26 PM 6/6/96 -0400, you wrote:

Bjorn wrote:
>>Alexis, I hope you don't mean this. You would be the first human being to do
>>so. I don't think a human CAN base his opinion only on facts.

Alexis wrote:

>Do you really believe that to be so? I know it isn't so and that there are
>millions of people just like me who prefer fact to fantasy.

First you say that you base your opinions ONLY on facts. Seeing that a human
being cannot function without his emotional aspect active, to some degree,
this does not make sense to me. But now you say that you PREFER fact to
fantasy. This, of course, is an entirely different statement. Preferring
fact to fantasy I think is a common trait among theosophists, myself
included. I take this as a way for you of admitting that basing opinions
ONLY on facts really isn't that realistic. Anybody who believes himself
capable of so doing would be risking to seriously deceiving himself.

>>
>>Yes, we are very different, you and I. I don't believe in fascism, and it
>>could well be that AB was having an improper association with this or that
>>fascist. Does that make her a fascist? Certainly not.
>
>It makes her a fascist sympathizer if not an actual collaborator , and
>that's all that can be said.

You have a person, like AB, who has left an enormous record, from writings
and speeches, as to her opinions and goals, clearly showing a desire to
defend the right of every human being to advance on the spiritual path. She
came outof a socialist tradition and converted to theosophy. From that point
on she did not see party politics as a solution to the human dilemma, but
instead worked for the spiritual upliftment of herself and mankind. Her
ideals were those of theosophy, including universal brotherhood. She died
1933, six years before the war, and her last years were marked by old age
and degenerating brain function. Your determination to judge her for some
contact you believe she had with a fascist in the 20ies (I assume) is not
very informative of her character. I am willing to look at the evidence, but
just the fact that she had some friendly contacts with this or that follower
of Moussolini just doesn't impress me very much.


>>A lot of good people had friends that were both fascists and nazis, you know.

>No Bjorn: I don't "Know", in fact what I do know, is that not one single
>good person had friends that were Nazis or Fascists!

Again, you are judging harshly in black and white. For some time, a majority
or near majority of the German population were nazis and supportive of
Hitler. Does this make them all "bad" people. Of course not! Is every
communist a "bad" person? Of course not! I suppose you have seen "Sound of
Music". There is a young boy there, Franz(?), who becomes a nazi and helps
in trying to capture Maria and the family von Trapp. Can't you see the
psychology at work, in a case like his? The nazis had a tremendeous appeal
to young people, many of whom joined the party. Does this make them all
"bad"? According to you, not only were THEY all bad, but all their friends
who were nonnazis were bad also. You seem to live in a black and white world
of absolute right and wrong, far removed from the complexities of real life.
I believe in absolute right and wrong, too, but an error of judgement and
the making of unwise decisions does not make a PERSON bad, nor necessarily
his/her intentions.

I was a communist myself, in my youth, subject to the misguided belief that
communism would be able to cure world suffering. Now I see communism as an
"evil conspiracy" that goes contrary to the divine idea, but I certainly
would never say or believe that all communists are "bad" people.

There were no "good"
>fascists or Nazis and decent people had nothing whatsoever to do with them.
>A relation of mine was a judge at Nuremburg and he did the only possible
>thing to Nazis he had them hung!

I absolutely agree that there were many real "bad" nazis, of course. To
commit the atrocities that some of them did you would have to be a very
"dark" person indeed. And to have such people hung, was probably a good thing.


>With this discussion we part company.
>Permanently.

That's fine with me, although I hope that it is NOT permanently. The
implications of the word "permanently" are very far reaching, if you think
about it.

Bjorn

roxendal@alpinet.net