Theos-Talk Archives (April 1996 Message tl01394)

Alexis wrote in part as follows:  (My reply is below.  Daniel.)
>
>Daniel, I submit you cannot have it both ways, you cannot bully someone and
>then complain when they fight back. And I am not just talking about your
>continual sniping at me since I first subscribed to this list. You do this
>to everyone. You're constantly demanding "references and citations" in
>support of statements that may be opinion or may be the result of long
>study. I cannot believe you are so naif as not to realize tht what you're
>doing is very subtly implying that other people have neither valid knowledge
>or valid opinions. I'm not the only person miffed with you and you know it
>very well. You are a very coercive person, and as far as I can ascertain,
>you have never made even the slightest attempt to grant plausability to the
>opinions of others. I have literally "stood on my head" to achieve some kind
>of modus vivendi with you and you will not let me. I have cooperated with
>you in the matter of my genealogy to the extent that it is your business,
>and yet you accuse me of being uncooperative. I have atempted to explain my
>point of view to you repeatedly and am continually acused of "not being
>responsive". In the last few days I have written responses to you any number
>of times in which I have attempted to answer every question you ask. The
>result? As far as I can see it, you ignore everything I do or say and
>continue with the same old accusations. The people on this list are
>obviously following these "strings" of ours and how long do you think you
>can keep it up. Except for Bee Brown to whom I can obviously do no right and
>who I guess thinks I'm a really "bad" person, most of the people on this
>list don't think so, even some with whom I regularly disagree. I have to ask
>you this. Why is it that I can have reasonable and polite discussions with
>Eldon Tucker when he and I disagree on almost everything? Why is it that he
>and I can strongly disagree and remain on a cordial basis? Why don't I
>irritate him the way I obviously do irritate you? We all started off on the
>same basis. If I can have good discussions with eldon and with Jerry schuler
>with whom I also don';t always agree, why is it that I'm so awful where
>you're concerned?
>Thoughts to ponder.
>
>alexis


Alexis,

Your characterization of what I do or don't do, I will let each person on
Theos-l decide for themselves whether
it is accurate or not.  I would simply suggest that the interested person go
back and read the content of what I have
written to you over the last month or so.  Until recently I did not know
that you were upset with me.I had sent
you a copy of my book, etc.  But starting several days ago, you seemed
really put out with Rich Taylor and then it
seemed you turned your displeasure on me.

As far as I know I have not called you names or anything like that.  And
what's wrong with asking you for more
details on a statement you've made or asking you for a quotation or
citation.  Now if you don't want to provide the
information, etc,, then fine.  I won't waste my time asking for it.  But I
thought this was a DISCUSSION group.....
As for asking for the original source, when someone says HPB taught this or
CWL was accused of that, is it so
unreasonable to ask for the source for this general statement?  This is my
modus operandi and I sometimes drive
myself crazy, but I believe it is a good way to get to the heart of the
matter.  If your statement is not just based on
a simple quotation, but is the result of study or something else, would it
not also be helpful to give a short explanation of that and try to convey
some of your reasoning BEHIND the bald statement.  Maybe you are correct in
some of what you
say about HPB, her books, etc.,  maybe you're not, but how can I or anyone
else determine that if you don't share some
of that with the rest of the group.  I would hope that theos-l could be a
place where those who would like to learn more could in fact do so.  Again
maybe Theos-l is not a discussion group where the players involved can share
their
opinions, insights, etc.

In the recent dialogue between Jerry S and Jerry HE, one would say HPB
taught this and the other one might say
HPB said that.  Since this is a discussion list with almost 90 people on
board, I believe a few people on this list
might have appreciated HPB's own words or some reference to where her words
could be found.  This is why I suggested to both Jerry HE and Jerry S that
they should reference their sources since the issue being discussed
was whether there were differences between what HPB and CWL taught on the
subject.  I have studied HPB for years,
but in some of the comments by both Jerrys I had no idea exactly what they
meant or were referring to when they said
HPB taught or CWL said.  Now if they don't want to cite the exact source,
okay.  But it makes it difficult for anyone
else [at least for me!] who wants to really follow the thread of discussion
and TRY  to understand the content of what is being said.

Alexis, in summary, I have many times (not all the time) enjoyed reading
what you have written and in fact you have
presented many interesting and even thought-provoking ideas.  You certainly
have made Theos-l sometimes a
more exciting place.  But you yourself recently said that you admired HPB
for she challenged authority, etc.  Well,
if HPB was here today on Theos-l, might not she challenge some of my
opinions, or some of your statements or something Eldon or Rich or whoever
might say?  I would suspect that she would.  Maybe each of us on Theos-l
(at least those who participant) need to take a deep breath (as JRC wisely
counseled)  and try to take a step or two
back and not be caught up in any emotions that may distort our
perceptions,etc.  Surely each of us can take some heat
(if that if what we perceive it to be) from others on this list.  IF WE CAN
GIVE IT, THEN WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE IT.
Or as they say, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.  HPB
challenged entrenched dogmas and ideas of her
day.  She was willing to turn up the heat.  In turn, what was she to expect?
On Theos-l, with such diversity of opinion,
what can one expect but some heat, sometimes scorching heat?  But why can't
the heat be directed at the ideas,
instead of at people on the other side of the discussion.  For example, Rich
Taylor has been criticized a number of times on this list for his age.  Oh,
when you are older, Rich, you will see my point of view and its validity.
Maybe or maybe not.  But what is this, but not a not so subtle reference to
Rich's supposed immaturity of thought.    What does such
a reference really prove?  Maybe I'm 74 and I agree with Rich.  Win your
supposed "opponent" to your side by showing
with reason, etc. the superiority or the truthfulness of your ideas.  Focus
on IDEAS not the person who conveys the
idea. [ I betcha that there are people on Theos-l and out there in the real
world who would agree with Alexis'
ideas about HPB's anthopogenesis.]  Therefore focus on the idea not the
person.  Does the idea or statement merit attention, approval,rejection,
etc. regardless of who wrote or said it.

Food for thought,

Daniel