Theos-Talk Archives (April 1996 Message tl01090)

Bee Brown writes:

>I am beginning to get the idea that Theosophy to begin with was
>very piecemeal and evolved bit by bit over a period of time.

JHE
      That is one interpretation, and a very reasonable one if you
reject the idea of the Masters being behind the TS and having a
grand plan in mind.

BB
>Olcott says that when Isis was written neither he nor HPB were
>familiar with the later reincarnation theories that became part
>of Theosophy.

JHE
      This is Olcott's version.  Obviously he didn't know anything
about reincarnation, and since HPB didn't discuss the subject
with him, he assumed she was ignorant of the subject also.
      Historically, ~Isis~ was published in 1877.  The after-death
states and reincarnation were not introduced until after the
introduction of the seven principle schema, which was in turn
introduced in 1880.  I think the significant question here is how
could HPB have made her teachings concerning after-death states
and reincarnation comprehensible without first giving a
foundation of the seven principles?  Personally, I don't see how
it could have been done.  Therefore, I would suggest an alternate
interpretation that HPB was indeed familiar with the later
reincarnation teaching, but could not broach that subject until
the seven principle schema was first given out.

BB
>They were writing their things in USA while Sinnett and Hume
were >doing their thing in India with the help of the Mahatmas.
It >seem to have been when they all met up that the teachings
>expanded into the SD type of affair.

JHE
      Actually HPB and HSO arrived in India in 1879, where they
introduced Theosophy and the Mahatmas to Sinnett and Hume.  In
1880 APS and AOH began their five year correspondence with the
Mahatmas.  About 1881 they began publishing a series in ~The
Theosophist~ called "Fragments of Occult Truth."  This series was
based upon the Mahatmic correspondence, and was where the seven
principle schema was introduced.  The schema was introduced again
in a slightly revised form in ~Esoteric Buddhism~, published in
1883.  HPB accommodated Sinnett's misleading terminology as
published in ~Esoteric Buddhism~ and tried to correct the
misconceptions and errors in that book over the following ten
years.

BB
>In USA it was phenomena that held Olcott's interest and HPB was
>at the centre of a lot of it and also publically busy argueing
>with many of their detractors.

JHE
      It seems that neither Olcott nor Sinnett were ever really
able to get past the phenomena stage.  They were both
Spiritualists at heart.  HPB was trying to expound upon a
philosophy that went way beyond anything Spiritualism ever came
up with.  But she tried to do it through the Spiritualistic
publications, because they were the only game in town at the
time.  It wasn't until Oct. 1879 that HPB finally had her own
publication (~The Theosophist~) where she could freely expound
upon Theosophical teachings.  But Olcott took control of that
journal in 1885, so HPB has to start a new one (~Lucifer~) in
1887.
      In my opinion, HSO and APS never really got it.  By 1885 the
Mahatmas gave up on Sinnett and broke off their correspondence.
Sinnett resorted to a medium whom he believed was able to channel
the Mahatmas through her trance state.  Keep in mind that the
Mahatmas were explicit in their original letters to Sinnett that
they would never communicate with him in that way.  By 1896,
Olcott was complaining bitterly that the Masters had abandoned
him--that he no longer had any contact with them.

BB
>I get the impression that most of Isis and the SD were not
>written by the HPB that was Helena Blavatsky but her physical
>part was used by the adepts to write with. She herself did some
>bits but Olcott complains about the mess she made with her cut
>and paste method of writing.

JHE

      Olcott worked with HPB in the editing of ~Isis~ while they
were in New York.  If you go through Boris de Zirkoff's annotated
version of ~Isis,~ it becomes evident that at least part of the
"mess" was created by Olcott, who didn't know enough about the
esoteric philosophy in order to edit the mss intelligently.
      As for the ~SD~,  HSO had already pushed HPB out of Adyar
before she had started this book in earnest.  While HPB was
staying with the Countess Wachtmeister in Germany, HPB would stay
up all night working on that mss.  The Countess wrote in her
memoirs that when she would enter HPB's writing room in the early
morning, after Blavatsky had finished for the night.  There the
Countess said that she would see the mss scattered about with
marginal notations in red and blue ink in the characteristic
writings of the Mahatmas.
      There is no evidence that HPB used a "control" to write the
might be interested in a study written by Geoffrey Barborka
called ~HPB Tibet and Tulku~ that investigates the nature of the
occult relationship between HPB and her teachers.

JHE
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   |Jerry Hejka-Ekins,                      |
      |Member TI, TSA, TSP, ULT                |
         |Please reply to: jhe@toto.csustan.edu   |
            |and CC to jhejkaekins@igc.apc.org       |
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