Theos-Talk Archives (April 1996 Message tl00293)

Hi, Alexis,

I forget what you said to Alan, & I've since deleted it. so just forget it.

As for your statement re Jews & Gays, you may be right, but I stick to mine.
Other people aren't as generous as you are, but rather tend to be jealous.
So I'd just as soon just think that Jews are in the arts & etc, & not say it
too loud, unless someone else says it first.

Liesel


>At 09:42 AM 4/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>Alexis,
>>
>>If I were you, I wouldn't say so loud that gays & Jews make up the bulk of
>>composers. It's statements like that which start antisemitic & anti gay
>>movements. You're asking for it. Why? Not that I know the solution to the
>>problem. I've been watching presentations on C-span, & watching with
>>astonishment how many Jews there are in responsible positions. But I can
>>tell you that. I'm not going to say it publicly, because that's what
>>anti-semites said long before the Nazis. So, actually, what I note on C-span
>>makes me feel a bit uneasy.
>
>Liesel:
>
>You know it's true and I know it's true. People who don't like Jews and
>don't like Gays aren't going to like them no matter what either the Jews or
>the Gays do or say, so screw em! If you were to take the Jews out of the
>worlds of Art, Entertainment, and letters, or out of medicine, or
>literature, or raw science, what would you have left? For heaven's sake
>Liesel...subtract the Jews from a list of Nobel Laureates and you'd have
>almost nothing left. Look at Broadway, take the Jews out of the list of
>famous composers and writers of musicals and/or operettas and Who'd be left?
>Cole Porter and Victor Herbert! I don't think it's becuase the Jewish people
>are intrinsically superior, I think it's because they are willing to work
>hard, and becuase they have an innate love of music and culture and
>knowledge for its own sake that places them in humanity's vanguard. It's
>probably silly to say "Don't mention it" because everyone knows this. I
>think the answer is to remind folks how very much humanity owes the Jewish
>people, how in debt we all are to them for their vast contributions. I
>really don't think Christianity was a great contribution, but the other
>really amakes up for it. What is true about Jews is also true about Gays.
>Hiding in the woodwork won't help, it never did in the past! In fact most
>Gays have learned that since we came bbblazing out of our closets, and began
>shoving people's noses in their own prejudice, things have improved greatly
>for us.
>>
>>Also, if you don't mind my saying so, I don't think it's very
>>brother/sisterly of you to remind Alan that he's poor & that you belong to a
>>"superior" set of people. Alan excels in other things like Kabalah &
>>Christian history.
>
>I beg your pardon? Liesel, when did I do any such thing? I am tremendously
>fond of Alan and I also admire him for his knowledge and efforts. I would
>never say or do anything that would hurt him. I certainly have "flamed"
>Richard Ihle, and in a lesser way Jerry schuler for certain comments they
>have made. But I cannot recall anything I said to Alan that could be
>constured as you just construed it. Please give day and date and quote!
>
>alexis
>>
>>Liesel
>>..............................................................................
>>
>>>At 09:59 PM 4/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>Alexis,
>>>>
>>>>Stealing another man's wife, and fooling around is, unfortunately, not
>>>>something very out of the ordinary. I really thought you'd come up with some
>>>>thing more juicy.
>>>>
>>>>Liesel
>>>>Member TI, TSA,TS in Canada, HR
>>>
>>>
>>>Well Leisel: When I lived in Germany, my music teacher (who as you may
>>>remember was Mendelsohns great granddaughter, siad there had always been
>>>rumours that Richard Wagner mau have indulged some of Ludwig of Bavarians
>>>appetites to gain his financial support, especially for the Beiruth project
>>>which was very expensive indeed. It's also odd that Hans von Bulow remained
>>>Wagner's friend and chief musical supporter for the rest of their lives.
>>>Maybe he was glad to get rid of Cosima...Wagner married her becuase she was
>>>Listz's daughter and Wagner was absolutely certain (he shared Nietsche's
>>>racial theories) that he and Cosima would produce a bunch of musical
>>>geniuses. But as you know, he only produced a bunch of Nazis.
>>>
>>>Actually people like Wagner seldom are original sexually> In my list of Gay
>>>composers I forgot Franz Schubert, Frederick Chopin, Maurice Ravel,  Eric
>>>Satie, Gian Carlo Menotti, Lucas Foss, Francis Poulanc, and Olivier Messian
>>>if you took the Gays and the Jews out of the world of art and music there's
>>>be hardly anyone else.
>>>
>>>alexis