Theos-Talk Archives (December 1995 Message tl00305)

Coherence:

> ... because of the importance of the topic and
>the sweeping effects that this type of communication could have on the TS a
>board list dedicated to announcements changes votes officers isssues
>basically a forum for the TS membership still seems like a good idea.

I think that things like this will naturally arise by fission as our
level of participation grows. We've been flat for about two years in
subscribers and whenever we've gotten too active some people will
drop out being unable to handle the greater volume of messages. Perhaps
at that point we could consider new lists. On the other hand a list
created for discussion in Spanish theos-span has been totally ignored
since its creation ages ago.

>However HPB said sorry no reference available
>to the effect that she would shake off the TS like dust from her feet if it
>should stray from the original program.

Yes if it failed in its purpose it would be abandoned. The important thing
is the work not the particular method of carrying it out. The Masters are of
course bound by loyalty gratitude and duty to those that carry on the work.

Among the ideals that are followed is loyalty to one's teacher. In "The
Mahatma Letters" it's mentioned that KH and M would abandon the T.S. in
a moment rather than disobey or be disloyal to their teacher the Mahachohan.

>To the extent that the TS is an
>organization attempting to live up to the highest ideals of Theosophy it is
>worthy of support. To the extent that the organization its "leaders"
>really no longer exemplify the ideals of Brotherhood and Selflessness
>displaying clear unbiased judgement dump it.

I might compare it to a financial investment. Forget about sunk costs
about how much has been put into a particular project. See how much it
would cost to refurbish things make the T.S. better and use it as an
instrument
for promulgation of the philosophy. Compare that cost to what it would take
with other approaches including starting other new theosophical groups.
See where there is the most benefit to the world for our efforts.

>Our allegiance to an organization need be no greater than our personal
>convictions dictate regardless of sentimentality for the founders.

Our allegiance I'd suggest is not specifically to the organization nor
to its founders but to the universal cause of compassion which we take
with the Bodhisattva Vow. We are loyal of course to our fellow workers
and to our guru teacher pandit or spiritual teacher if we have one.
We are in a way in love with the beauty of the spiritual and the wisdom
of Mahat and express this love by passing on and sharing in the world
whatever we are capable of passing on.

>ULT associates are "loyal to the founders of the Theosophical Movement"
>and in effect abandoned the TS because it had strayed from the original
>lines laid down.

But ULT associates are simply theosophical students in an organization
with its own program and policies. They follow the particular pattern
given them as formulated by Crosbie and those that followed him.

Signing an associate card and leaving it on file at a ULT lodge does
not make one any different than before. When you describe how ULT
asssociates are you're talking about *the way they should be* according
to the way that organization was made. Individuals in the ULT are as
likely to fall short of the ULT ideal as those in the Adyar or Pasadena
T.S. to fall short of their organizations' respective ideals.

>So like the United States there is a rebeliousness against autocratic
>or dictatorial leadership.

The sense of rebellion may have come from Crosbie being unable to put
up with the strong emphasis on the arts on gardening and on being in
close touch with Mother Nature that Katherine Tingley made. People were
not allowed to spend all their time with books living in their heads
but were required to live a full-spectrum life at the Point Loma
commune.

As head of the Point Loma T.S. during the years when Crosbie was a devoted
and loyal member she may have required a bit too much of him leading
him to rebell and create the ULT.

Since the Adyar T.S. the Point Loma T.S. and the ULT all appeal to
different types of people it's fine that there are three groups. But
they should remain on the most cordial relationship with one another
and there would be nothing wrong with yet more theosophical groups
assuming they had a different specialization and weren't simply in
direct competition with one another.

>I recommended a space of its own where these important idealogical
>democratic issues could be addressed specifically and at length
>without getting entangled in discussions of the eroticism of seeing
>one's husband up to his elbows in soap suds at the kitchen sink.

We all have different interests. As an international group of students
from many different backgrounds we could have almost any topic come up.
And there is likely disagreement on anything that anyone may care to say.
But this is not bad. It encourages us to refine our thinking and sharpen
our words sharper in clarity and lucidity not sharper in biting hurtful
words. We become more expert at expressing the philosophy and better
able to promulgate Theosophy in the future.

>If anything I propose getting more organized. Distribute the TS information
>updates editorials voter issues etc. in a more formal matter making sure
>that as many members as possible are aware that a forum specifically created
>for the dissemination of this information has been established.

There are mailing lists that are thing way. Like the one for Project
Gutenberg there may be thousands or tens of thousands of subscribers.
The list is moderated and the moderator edits and passes on suitable
messages. Otherwise there would be too much duplicated and unrelated
materials for people to separate the useful from the useless.

We don't have this volume problem. If only we had tens of thousands
of participants! Then we could break apart into dozens of on-line lodges
and individuals could participate according to interest. As long as we
remain steady at about 100 subscribers though this won't happen. <frown>

>My delete key works just fine but there may be those people who do not
>want to wade through the other stuff but would rather go straight to a
>place where this information existed with someone in charge of the
>completeness timeliness and accuracy of the information.

Again it depends upon what one is interested in. Someone else may
use their <DELETE> for all the political stuff in much the same way
you delete some of the other topics.

-- Eldon