Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00993)

In his reply to me, Jerry S. apparently send the message to
my email id, rather than to theos-l. From reading the message,
it is clear that Jerry intended to post the message, so I'm
posting it for him.

-- Eldon

>"From first to last every sphere has its world of effects, the passing
>through which will afford a place of final rest to each of the human
>principles -- the seventh principle excepted." [73]
>Eldon:<Our seven (or twelve) globes are the spheres of causes. Each has its
>sphere of effects, which follows its. We leave behind our six lower
>principles in the spheres of effects as we leave our globe behind in
>the after-death states.>
>
> We obviously can't leave a principle on each Globe - there are
>12 Globes and only 6 principles. Even looking at HPB's lower 7 Globes,
>there is still one Globe too many. What do you mean by "We leave
>behind our six lower principles in the spheres of effects" plural? I think
>that if we try to see our planet Earth (Globe D) as only a cause (and thus
>can't be effected by us) we could have a lot of problems with ecology.
>
>"The worlds of effects are not lokas or localities...>
>Eldon:<The worlds of effects are the states of consciousness that we go
>through as we drop our lower principles. There are not a "place" in
>the sense of something objective, external to our own subjective states
>of consciousness.>
>
> Every subjective state must have a corresponding objective
>world or place. This is a fundamental law having to do with duality -
>you can't have subjectivity without a corresponding objectivity, though
>you might not be aware of it at the time.
> So, when we drop off our principles after death, and
>our consciousness alters in a serial-type order, may we not consider
>that we could have just as well gone to some other place? Since
>that "place" is not a sphere of effect, I would submit that it must be
>one of the other Globes or planes. You can't drop off six principles in
> "states of consciousness."
>
>"Thus the *body* of man is wedded to and remains for ever within the
>body of his planet; his individual *jivatma* life principle, that which
>is called in physiology *animal spirits* returns after death to its
>source -- *Fohat*; his *linga shariram* will be drawn into *Akasa*; his
>*Kamarupa* will recommingle with the Universal *Sakti* -- the
>Will-Force, or universal energy; his "animal soul" borrowed from the
>breath of *Universal Mind* will return to the Dhyan Chohans; his sixth
>principle -- whether drawn into or ejected from the matrix of the Great
>Passive Principle must remain in its own sphere -- either as part of
>the crude material or as an individualized entity to be reborn in a
>higher world of causes." [71-72]
>
> After death, our physical body returns to the physical
>plane, our etheric components return to the etheric plane, our
>astral components return to the astral plane, our lower and higher
>mental components return to the lower and higher mental planes,
>which accounts for the lower 5 principles. Only atma-buddhi, in the
>form of the Reincarnating Ego, remains untouched, and eventually
>re-expresses itself in a new incarnation on the lower planes. As
>Eldon says, "Our principles are dropped in the after-death states"
>and one each is dropped in a particular region. Here the problem
>is one of defining the planes - I would make the etheric to be the
>upper portions of the physical, and divide the mental into lower and
>upper in the manner of AB/CWL to make all of this business take
>place on the lower three cosmic planes. The Reincarnating Ego
>is located on the Causal Plane (i.e., the plane which causes each
>incarnation on the three lower planes).
>
>"The seventh will carry it from the *Devachan* and follow the new *Ego*
>to its place of re-birth." [71-72]
>
> While the human consciousness is in Devachan (which AB/CWL
>locates on the third or mental plane) the atma stimulates the buddhi toward
> the next incarnation - which is with an entirely new ego. This idea, that
each
>birth is with a new personality/ego, is one which differentiates theosophy
>from many New-Age teachings about reincarnation. But its not only New-Age,
>the idea of reincarnation being like a change of clothes in which we simply
>"forget" our past life is also found in the Gita, and is one of the reasons why
>I don't especially like the Gita - its OK for beginners, but is too simplistic
>and I
>usually won't recommend reading/studying it.
>
>Eldon:<The "next world of causes" is either Globe E, or a return to Globe D,
>after a quick passage of the Globes without a stopover on any of them.>
>
> I can see Globe C, which leads into D, but since the outgoing
>"person" already left through Globe E, I can't see any need to a return there.
>Remember, the flow of consciousness and energy is counterclockwise
>and Globe E is on the upward arc and within the astral plane. The *only* way
>to get to E is through D if we don't use horizontal pathways. Since I do use
>them, I can see the possiblity of entering E through C. All incoming
>devachanees must enter D through C because the *only* way to get to the
physical
>plane is through the astral (we cannot skip any planes) and the *only* astral
>Globe
>leading downward is C (Globe E leads upward to F).
>
>Eldon:<The sphere of effects about our Globe D has seven classes of dwellers.>
>
> How can this be, when we were just told above that the sphere
>of effects is not a locality or place???
>
>Eldon:<This is both where the Dhyani-Chohans, men in their after-death states,
>the "psychic corpses" of men, the elementals, and sorcerers dwell. We
>would also find here the Mahatmas and Nirmanakayas.>
>
> Whoa Eldon. I hope that you are not trying to tell me that
>the Mahatmas and Dhyani-Chohans exist on the same level as elementals
>and "psychic corpses." I would prefer to think them to be above such things.
>Your elementals, pyschic corpses, and sorcerers (whatever the devil they
>are??) exist on the astral plane. Mahatmas are living men and women,
>still on the physical plane. Dhyani-Chohans are spiritual and exist just
above
>the Abyss. Why would you want to lump these all together?
>
>"... there are two fields of causal manifestation, to wit: the
>objective and subjective. So the grosser energies, those which operate
>in the heavier or denser conditions of matter manifest objectively in
>physical life ... The moral and spiritual activities find their sphere
>of effects in "Devachan." [188]
>
> This exactly reflects what I said in an earlier posting.
>Our "sphere of effects" is the Devachan, which is not a locality as
>such, but rather a state of human consciousness.
>
>Final Comment: I want to thank Eldon for posting the quotes, and for his
>interpretations. I don't share all of Eldon's interpretations, and in some
>cases I seem to have my own. Nevertheless, I can't see anything in
>the quotes per se to argue with. What does this tell me? It suggests
>to me that much of the MLs (and also HPB's works) are deliberately
>written in a poetic style that is meant to be subject to several ways of
>interpretation. This makes it rather like the Christian Bible, and many
>other classic works that have us students spending lifetimes trying to
>understand.
>
> Jerry S.
>