Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00333)

RE: CWL and Mars:

 It appears that several people have assumed that the CWL
material on Mars that I posted was taken from ~Man Whence How and
Whither~. This is not the case. The material was transcribed
from 1917 edition of ~The Inner Life~, but it is also found in
the first (1910) edition, though removed from the edition
published around 1986. My earlier comments concerning the
extensive editing of ~Man Whence How and Whither~ was not in
reference to Mars material, but to material concerning the world
teacher (i.e. Krishnamurti) and other subjects. My apologies for
any lack of clarity in my original post that may have led to this
confusion.

Lewis Lucas wrote:

LL>I am suggesting that CWL should be read with as open a mind as
>one is capable of...realizing that we all have some bias or
>prejudice.

 We agree on this.

LL>To demand that others be always consistent with the views
>expressed by themselves or others seems unreasonable to me. I
>would not be inclined to discount all that Mark Furman has said
>because he lied about some other things. I find his behavior
>*understandable* but do not condone it.

 Self consistency is not the issue I was addressing. I was
only describing my thought process for determining that Fuhrman
is a racist, which we agree that he is. I agree that we not
necessarily discount *all* that he says, however, whatever he
says concerning O.J. Simpson's arrest must be viewed in light of
his racist attitudes and activities. In the case of CWL, we know
that he lied about his age, his family circumstances, about
having a brother etc. I agree that this does not mean that we
discount everything he says, but it tells me that CWL is capable
of and does sometimes lie.

LL> If you are saying there are no civilizations on Mars, CWL
>either was lying or deluded, and we cannot take anything else
>he said seriously, then I would disagree.

 I'm saying that CWL's clairvoyant observations of Mars are
not what the Viking cameras observed. For me, this fact throws
question upon CWL's clairvoyant abilities. Over the years I have
accumulated many more examples of CWL's clairvoyant observations
which do not stand up to what we now know. Each incident throws
greater doubt upon his abilities. I know of no incidents of
clairvoyant observations of something that he could not have
known in advance that have been confirmed though our growing
knowledge of our environment. But please advise me if you know
of any.

LL>While I cannot prove to others that what he wrote about is
>true, I also cannot prove them wrong either.

 Proof is a difficult word. For instance, there is no proof
for those who are not open to it. Perhaps "reasonable evidence"
might be a better word. What would be reasonable evidence for a
group of people judging CWL's writings who do not have a vested
interest one way or another. That, for the sake of argument
disqualifies us and probably most people on this board. For
those who are not vested in this question, I would suggest that
the fact that the Viking landers and orbiters found no evidence
of Martian canals, forests, cities etc. would be reasonable
evidence that CWL's clairvoyant observations were wrong in this
case.

LL> While I have read many of CWL's books, I don't recall him
>ever making such a claim.
[i.e. of being an adept].

 This was E.S. material--not public. Find an E.S. member who
goes back to about 1930 and ask about CWL's occult status.

LL> Maybe the problem here is one of definition. I thought
>another post had pointed out that even adepts are not infallible
>while operating on the lower planes in nature.

 Can you find the reference?

JHE>> Another explanation I heard once was that the cities are
>>there exactly as CWL described, but the Martians did not wish
>>to be seen so they created a mayavi over the Viking cameras so
>>that they would only record desert.

LL> HPB describes an incident in which she bets a rickshaw
>driver he cannot find the house he had just taken her to. She,
>too, believed that it was possible to hide from view places.

 Yes HPB has lots of stories about psychologizing people so
that they don't see what is in front of them. The Indian rope
trick works on this principle. But how do you psychologize a
camera? As I mentioned, we need to be careful about reaching for
explanations in order to hold on to a cherished belief.

Jerry Hejka-Ekins
Please reply to: jhe@toto.csustan.edu