Theos-Talk Archives (April 1994 Message tl00026)

Brenda,

BT> One (somewhat secret) advantage to having two diverse
> opinions regarding the AAB books and The Arcane School is that
> when the young, less-seasoned theosophists get together to do
> full moon meditations, the older, ingrained, veterans of
> theosophy stay away.

> Would it be possible for Jerry and Arvind to describe their
> experiences of full moon meditations?  As some of the other
> members of the network may also have been to full moon
> meditations, it might be of interest to see how closely the
> activities match in content.

     It is interesting that your experience of full moon
meditations have been divided along generational lines.  My
experiences with this was in the early to mid 1980's in Los
Angeles.  The Wesak Festival was held each year at the Wilshire
Ebell Theater and there were well over a hundred people
attending--of all ages.  April and I went for several years.  I
don't remember why we started, but quit after our lives became
too complicated with too many demands upon our time--especially
concerning the Lodge.

     In those days, we entered the theater and sat quietly for an
extended time.  There was no socializing, though Dane Rudyar was
the only person present that we knew well, so we usually sat next
to or near him.

     After sitting quietly for awhile, someone would ascend the
stage and explain the festival, talk about meditation (If my
memory serves me correctly, the speaker even tried to guide us
though a meditation--a procedure that I find counter productive),
and read from a book.  All of this left me totally unimpressed.
For me, the most important part of the experience was just to sit
quietly and do my own form of meditation.

     I cannot claim to have had any extraordinary experiences one
way or the other at those meetings, nor could I necessarily
credit what experiences I did have to the timing or to the
process.

     I hope this answers your question.



Arvind,

     Here are some short answer to some of your comments.  Time
is very short, but I will write more fully after you have sent
your response concerning the full moon festivals etc.

AK> It seems very hard to do a 'pure' investigation along the
> lines that you had originally suggested, due to (a)the
> nature of 'non real time' internet communication, (b)the
> rather substantial claims of others on the time we have
> available, (c)my rather heavy 'to-read' list, which has
> a priority which is different from what may be required to
> undertake this study, (d)my need to ask you questions which
> may be 'out of turn' as far as the investigation is concerned,
> as illustrated by the questions that I just posed regarding
> your impression of AAB.  I propose that we continue this
> dialog anyways, perhaps without any preconditions or even
> methodology, and consider it just an 'information sharing'
> project for now!

     Yes. Under the circumstances, this seems to be the best way.


JHE>> Her experiences at Krotona, of course, was fleshed out in
>> my reading, because of my own historical knowledge of this
>> period.  Therefore I was able to compare her attitudes and
>> impressions of what was going on with documentation concerning
>> what was really going on around her.  In this area, I still
>> have a lot of questions, and have been exploring them through
>> another source.

AK> Tell me more about this other source, and the results of
> your work, as and when you get any.

     I'm still working on this one.  I'll be happy to share what
I find after I get more of the pieces of the puzzle in place.


JHE>>   Concerning her psychic experiences: seances, telepathic
>> communications, visions and visitations, we only know what she
>> says concerning these experiences.  The trouble with
>> experiences of these types is that they can't be collaborated
>> by witnesses.  Also, it is well known that what one
>> experiences psychically is highly subjective.  We have no way
>> to compare what happened with what she experienced.  Since I
>> felt that there was no inclination on her part to deceive her
>> readers, I would conclude that AAB was of a psychic nature.
>> The reliability of her experiences and her ability to
>> interpret what she experienced is another question that cannot
>> be answered just by reading her Autobiography.

AK> I agree with you regarding AAB being a psychic or a
> 'sensitive' but looking at the warnings throughout her books
> against awakening the psychic faculties prematurely, and the
> quality of her writing, I tend to believe that she was
> certainly no ordinary 'channeler'.

     Leadbeater gave the same warnings which were in turn echoes
of Blavatsky's warnings.  It doesn't prove anything.  As for the
quality of her writing--I'm not yet convinced of that either.


AK> As far as I know, the description of the ceremony involving
> the Lord Buddha is only in AAB's own writing, and is not a part
> of one of the DK books.

     Would you mind saving me a bit of time and list those books
that are supposed to have been exclusively by DK?

JHE>> The complication with
>> AAB comes with her unacknowledged usage of Leadbeater ES
>> material.  If one isn't familiar with the Leadbeater ES
>> material (most people are not), then how can we tell which is
>> Leadbeater and which is DK?

AK> You are right, only someone who has studied Leadbeater in
> depth can sort this out.  Perhaps we will get help from Brenda
> or others reading this dialog who may be familiar with CWL's
> writings.

     That would be nice.


AK> I think yours is the only 'well-reasoned' answer that I have
> got from non-AAB students that shows why someone may be
> reluctant to accept AAB teachings!  Through this dialog I have
> become a whole lot more skeptical than I have ever been!!  That
> is why I am wanting to read HPB before I go on to read TCF and
> possibly the rest of the AAB books.

     When you go to India this summer, I suggest that you pick up
a copy of ~H.P.B. Teaches~  edited by Michael Gomes. It is just a
single volume in an orange cover, and not available in the U.S.
It is a collection of her more important articles, and they were
very nicely annotated.  I think you will find it very much worth
having, even though you plan to get the Collected Writings later.
H.P.B.'s articles to the members there, since her Collected
Writings are not available for sale in India.


AK>> You may be interested in the following excerpt that I saw on
>> the Seth teachings elsewhere on Internet:

 >>        - Re-incarnation.

 >>     Instead of a linear progression of incarnations, all our
 >>     reincarnations exist at once.  It appears linear due to
 >>     the way we have focused our consciousness.


     I'm sure that on some level and from some point of view this
is true.  But how does this information make us better people?


 >>      - Cause and effect.

>>      It occurs because of foundation beliefs we all hold on
>>      the nature of physical reality.  But these beliefs can
>>      be changed if you believe strongly enough against it:
>>      e.g. if you believe a mountain will move, it will.

     Obviously this is partly true.  But remember the old Vedanta
story of the chela whose belief transcended the veils of maya and
he was still swept off the road by an elephant.


 >>      - Enlightenment.

>>      Gnothi Seaton, Know Thyself.  However, Seth claims that
>>      the path too enlightment need not be of serious moment
>>      with serious faces.  In fact, one way to enlightment is:
>>      "If it ain't fun, don't do it".

     In contrast to this is Blavatsky's statement that the reason
that happiness is so ephemeral on this plane, is because it
really is not a part of it, but belongs to more spiritual realms.
In other words, the purpose of our being here in the physical is
not for us to be happy.  We learn our lessons through mistakes
and personal pain.  Seth's view sounds more appealing, doesn't
it?


 >>      - Inherent existing self.

>>      We are multimensional personalities, that is, we are far
>>      more than we are consciously aware of at present.  This
>>      includes the subconscious and unconscious strata's of our
>>      being, and the super inner self that includes all
>>      past-future incarnations, etc.  We are Gods, couched in
>>      creaturehood.

     Sounds like theosophy 101 doesn't it?


 >>      - Ultimate reality.

>>      There is no ultimate reality.  God (or All-That-Is) is
>>      not all done and finished and never will be.  All-That-Is
>>      is in an infinite State of Becoming that is occuring Now.
>>      Perfection implies a dead end, where all is done and
>>      completed, and that is not the nature of All-That-Is.
>>      There is no ultimate anything for that would imply
>>      perfection and completeness.

     And here is theosophy 201!


AK>>> 5.There is a show called 'Ancient Prophecies' or something
>>> like  that which is supposed to re-air on NBC on April 10
>>> (Sunday). I was asked by a couple of people to watch it and I
>>> am just passing on that info to you here; it may be of
>>> interest to us all.
>>

JHE>>Thanks, but we will be out of town Sunday. Maybe it will air
>> at a different time here.

AK> The show was somewhat shocking, to put it mildly.  It
> consisted of segments on Edgar Cayce, Nostradamus and a living
> 'prophet' by the name of Gordon-Michael Scallion, who
> apparently has been rather accurately predicting the recent
> 'earth changes' (e.g. hurricane Andrew, the LA quakes, midwest
> flooding).  He claims that there will be major changes in the
> geography and the economy of the US between now and 2001.  In
> particular, I am very concerned about his prediction that
> California will become the 'islands of California'.  There is a
> toll free number (1-800-628-7493) where anyone can reach the
> Matrix Institute which he has founded, and order 'the Map of
> the (new) US' as well as a Video on his predictions and also
> subscribe to his monthly newsletter called 'the Earth Changes
> Report'(ECR).  I just yesterday ordered a copy of the map and a
> couple of other things!  You definitely need to look into it
> (if nothing else, get a copy of the latest newsletter for
> $5.00). If you already know about him, let me know what you
> think.

     We live East of the fault line and 98 feet above sea level,
so I don't think I'm going to loose any sleep over this one.  If
Los Angeles becomes an island, it would probably suit most of the
people in this country just fine.  Most people regard "la la
land" as a world of its own anyway.

     In a more serious vein, this is all old hat.  Edgar Cayce
started this over fifty years ago.  As for the economy, it would
be more miraculous if there weren't major changes by 2001.


Paul Johnson,

     Your trip to Texas sounds great.  Reminds me of the time we
took half the Summer off and visited all of the Indian ruins in
the South West.  We camped in Chaco Canyon and the whole bit. Now
you have me all stirred up to do it again.  But the most
astounding experience was in Brittany about three years ago.
There is a man-made cave on an island in the Gulf of Morhibrihan
that is dated to have been constructed prior to 8500 B.C.  The
Stones are all beautifully carved with designs, including a
human-like form at the very end.  It was one of the most
extraordinary experiences of my life just sitting in there.  It
is a must, the next time you get back there.

Fraternally
Jerry Hejka-Ekins