Theos-Talk Archives (November 1993 Message tl00054)

The following dialog may be of some interest to theosophists.../Arvind

In article d54@gap.cco.caltech.edu, verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com
(Virendra Verma) writes:

> In article <2buffg$8ba@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, pjm@isis.cshl.org
> (Pat Monardo) writes...
> >
> >if i watch consciousness emerge (from nothingness) as it does indeed
> >every day, i notice the following transformation. i discern a
> >remarkable
> >consciousness which is an "observer" consciousness. it watches the
> >REM dream play but is affected in only subtle ways. nothing painful
> >in a "physical" way can enter into this consciousness. that is,
> >if the person who later becomes "me" in the dream is shot or
> >hurt in any way, "i" ignore it and dont fully comprehend the
> >situation. however, this dreamscape soon pulls "i" into te
> >picture at which time, i am affected by the dream forms,
> >a notable increase in fear arises. so in my dream scapes,
> >more than one consciousness is apparent. neither of these,
> >however, is a soul. the first consciousness, i believe, is
> >that consciousness which "lasts throughout the duration of
> >samsaric existence". so where is soul? where is god? neither
> >are apparent in any of this. so your ability to observer
> >this maya and equate it to God is fictional.
>
       Here the consciousness is not coming out of nothing
       but is undergoing a change of state from 'surface consciousness'
       to 'sublimal consciousness' in which soul, the witness
       of all your external/surface/physical experiences, goes
       to her final abode of blissfulness while mechanical
       machinery of mind plays with photographs (sort of) or
       impressions captured by the buddhi during surface
       consciousness. Mind, Buddhi and Pran (these together are
       called sukshma sharira) are all physical manifestations. Pran
       is energy, the first inertial matter and with preponderance
       of tamasic guna; Mind has preponderance of rajas guna which
       is the indicator of dynamism; Buddhi is intellect with
       preponderance of sattwic guna and contains photographs of data.
       When soul comes out of her blissfulness state, the data are
       arranged in proper manner and interpreted by the mind which
       generates thoughts. This is how 'surface consciousness' comes
       into being.

       So to answer your question about soul, it is still in the
       body but goes to her final abode of Bliss.

       All this lila takes place within the body of God. Mere existence
       of you is an indication of the existence of God.

> >i am not
> >criticising God, only your love of fiction.
> >

       That's fine with me as long as it is an opinion.

       BTW, sometimes, 'fictions' (a subjective term) are useful to
       understand various phenomenon of nature. That helps divert
       attention to more useful things from wasting ones energies by
       getting entangled into intricacies of non-sensical beliefs. If
       a fiction can satisfy the mind from the reason point of view,
       that indeed, IMHO, will help control the mind. If left wandering
       into non-sensical beliefs, the whole purpose of life is not
       going to go anywhere. The purpose of models is to simply
       understand the phenomenon, to prove their validity is futil.
       The reality or truth must be 'realized' not proved.

 namaste,

 -- Virendra Verma

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 "To dwell in our true being is liberation; the sense of ego is a fall
  from the truth of our being" - Mahopanishad
 "All is the Divine Being" - Gita XVIII 61